Natalie Douglas — Why Pharma Needs Emotionally Intelligent Leaders

Adam Walker:I am Adam Walker, a biometrics consultant, and this is the Pharma Prescribed Podcast where leaders, innovators, and hidden voices in healthcare open up, no sound bites, no spin, just raw insight, one prescription at a time. In an industry driven by data protocols and pressure, we rarely pause to ask the human questions, what drives us, what breaks us, and what truths live behind the titles we wear?

Adam Walker:Natalie Douglas is a transformative leader who's influenced, spans global pharma, biotech, and health tech. With over 20 years of board level experience, Natalie has held various CEO roles, including at healthcare at home, and led strategic growth at Idis, which is now Cgen. Healthcare at home. She oversaw one of Europe's largest providers of complex clinical services outside the hospital setting, delivering care to over 150,000 patients annually, and redefining how treatment reaches people where they live.

Adam Walker:Her accolades include the Pharma Voice, top 100 health Investor, power Top 50. Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year finalist, and Sunday Times Fast track. Whether mentoring founders, entrepreneurs, and new entrants to the industry, or investing in scalable platforms, Natalie brings clarity to complexity and a social conscience to strategy.

Adam Walker:I'm honored to call Natalie a mentor and a friend. Natalie, welcome to Pharma Prescribed.

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: Adam, thank you for that amazing introduction that reflects how many years I've been in this industry

Adam Walker:and maybe how many years we've known one another. Dare I say, I know

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: it's a very long time. That's one of the advantages I think, of spending your entire career in one industry.

Adam Walker:You get to know some amazing people, and you get to stay in touch with those people too.

Adam Walker:I definitely was a young man when we first came into contact with one another. I don't feel quite so young these days. And, um, dare I say it, I do recall very vividly some of the interactions we had then. So for our audience and those out there who, who aren't familiar with you, could you just give us a little bit of a potted history outside of, you know, what I've touched upon?

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2: A a few decades to cover, but essentially I started my career carrying the bag, selling drugs to doctors for Janssen Pharmaceuticals. That was my first entry really into this amazing industry. And I guess where you and I connected was a few years into my tenure in building the global market leader in managed access programs.

And in fact. Instigating that entire model of enabling patients to gain access to therapies that weren't yet registered where they were. And, uh, you know, I look back now and see where the industry is today. I've seen huge change and, you know, a lot of still remaining opportunity, but, you know, the point is I spent my career really focused on providing solutions to patients with unmet need. And IIS was a main passion project for me that lasted almost 15 years. Uh, and when we first connected there, which was actually back in about 20 11, 20 12, you and I were talking then about data analytics, real world evidence, real world data in that.

Setting outside of clinical trials. That was, you know, it was a long time ago. Now when I look at where we are today, you know, that's still a relevant topic and maybe a topic that's moved on a little bit more since then, but perhaps hasn't moved on quite as quickly as I would've expected. So, you know, we were real pioneers I think back then.

Um, in thinking differently about. How patients access therapies and how drug companies, uh, find access routes outside of a classic trial or outside of a, a setting where the drug has already been approved.

Adam Walker:Yeah, it's a, it, it's a, it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful it reflection. You're right, real world evidence isn't just a buzzword for today.

Adam Walker:We were definitely there at the forefront. I'm not sure how that's moved forward significantly other than to say that. People are still talking about it. It's still extremely relevant. It's probably more relevant today than it's ever been, and without even referencing the pandemic, which is clearly pivotal to that, there have been other significant milestones along the way in real world evidence and expanding the access to drugs.

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. And in fact, we reengaged again, didn't we, at the beginning of the pandemic, which is when I started rarity, but then became reality, which again was centered around collation of data points that were all data driven from patients' direct experience with therapy. And it was still really early days to be talking about that.

Adam Walker:So that's my other. Sort of time, uh, stamp, if you like, when we talk about real world evidence generation in this particular setting. You know, five years ago it was still something that I think pharmaceutical companies were quite uncomfortable about or just not ready to face.

Adam Walker:And today.

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: It's a great question because this is something I'm spending a lot of time on at the moment. What does it look like today? Where is it gonna go in the next five years? I definitely think that it's more on the agenda today, uh, for various reasons. And I think that's a really good thing and I think. I still think there's opportunity that needs to be uncovered there, but I think it's a good thing.

Adam Walker:But it just shows how long it's taken to get here. I would say let's, we'll have to catch up again, hopefully in less than five years, and then we can talk about what's happened since this conversation.

Adam Walker:Yeah, I agree.

Adam Walker:You know, you, you talked about how you first got into the industry and. How that subsequently went forward.

Adam Walker:You are someone who I think, if anyone knows you personally, but certainly if they know you professionally, you've had an extraordinary career and you are having an extraordinary career, Natalie, and as I mentioned in my introduction as someone who connects with you very regularly and and really does value your opinion.

Adam Walker:What drives you? What drives you every single day? What gets you outta bed in the morning? What continues to drive you because your motivation never seems to go.

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: I laugh about that. Sometimes I don't know the direct answer to that question. I just, I'm just this ball of energy, to be honest, and that sort of mentally and physically, not to the point where I have to sort of climb mountains and do all of those crazy things, but I need my brain to be stimulated.

Adam Walker:And my brain. I have a busy brain, so I have a neurodiversity, I have a busy brain, and that leads to quite a lot of fidgeting as well. Um, but the two combined I think, are very powerful instruments and lead to tremendous creativity. It's one of the things I think that made me realize there was a market opportunity with IDIs that actually at the time other people didn't get or felt was, you know, in some cases thought it might be.

Adam Walker:Potentially illegal, which is quite funny when you look back on it. But I, I think for me, I've just got a natural curiosity. I love people. So I guess starting my career in sales perhaps felt like. Or looked like the kind of route that I might take. You know, I love people so engaging with other people asking a lot of questions.

Adam Walker:My curiosity is often centered around somehow identifying a problem and trying to, by asking questions, figure out how deep or how broad that, that problem might be. Um, so I'm naturally curious. I've got a lot of energy. I, my brain needs to be. Actively engaged. Otherwise, I guess my husband might say I might get myself into trouble, but, in general I feel like I'm a learn, I'm a natural learner.

Adam Walker:I like to learn things. I don't assume that I know everything, but somehow my brain hooks onto things that other people perhaps aren't thinking about or perhaps don't see as being interesting. I'm a very positive person in the main too, so, you know, I often, you know, I'm the, I am a bounce out of bed kind of person.

Adam Walker:I just, I've always been that way. I mean, I've had challenges along the way, as most of us do, where perhaps we've been impacted. That enthusiasm is impacted by extraneous factors. But I'm naturally curious, naturally positive. I love. Being around other people, and I, I'm an explorer. I mean, that's the bottom line.

Adam Walker:I, you know, I love to explore. And, and the, the pharma industry, the healthcare industry is such a fascinating environment. It's challenging, it's complicated. It's vast, you know, I guess that's why I've ended up in healthcare because there's so many issues to tackle that it does keep my brain.

Adam Walker:Occupied for quite a long time. And that's, you know, that's where I've met an awful lot of people from all different walks of life within that, that, that community's a big community. But I've met a lot of like-minded people within that community with different skills. That's the other thing to say. Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm just a very positive person, naturally curious.

Adam Walker:And, I'm an explorer. I like to make progress. I don't like to stand still.

Adam Walker:I would concur with that. Most definitely. That's my experience of, of having spent time with you as well, Natalie, I would say yeah you, you definitely emit energy and as someone who, who I've really always looked up to.

Adam Walker:I'm curious, did you have any mentors along the way that supported you in your journey, in your earlier journey? Because there has been a very visible. Transition through through your roles and and industry, but I'm just wondering how far back that goes, where people, key people influenced your earlier journey?

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: I think from a very early age probably my family environment. You know, I come from a family of actually sole traders, really not so much entrepreneurs. I, I would, me going into a big company like a j and j company like Janssen was quite a big deal because that wasn't, I didn't come from that, you know, most of the people in my.

Adam Walker:Uh, vicinity and my family were, you know, managing small businesses. But the point is they were very independent thinkers and wanted to do things on their own. I've definitely got those traits. When I did land at Janssen at j and j that was a massive revelation for me because as I say, I wasn't used to that environment.

Adam Walker:And actually some of that was a little intimidating when I think back. I still don't know how I ended up getting a job, although I do remember who employs me and who could see my potential, I guess. And I guess to specifically answer your question, in those early days, I don't know if they were mentors per se, but I was hired by a woman.

Adam Walker:My boss was a woman, Sue Webb at Janssen. And the, there were two senior women in the company at that time. One was Jane Griffiths and the other was Liz Norton. And and actually they all mentored me at one stage or another, but I guess what was obvious to me or what stood out to me is that there were women in leadership roles and that gave me confidence at that time.

Adam Walker:And their leadership style, uh, perhaps helped me lower, the intimidation that I felt. Also my trainer, um, Sadie Hartley, another woman, very she was a real influence actually during my training at Janssen, because I was the only person on my training course without a biochemistry degree. And, you know, my degree is in marketing, so I was sort of feeling even more intimidated at that point, and I had a lot of encouragement that I could achieve some of the the expectations that were set.

Adam Walker:You know, there's a lot of scientific and some of it to me was super new, but they encouraged me and made me actually made me believe it in myself. And so that was a bit, it was pivotal for me being in that company. And actually what. Also, actually what Sadie pointed out to me, I remember during my training course, I've said this before on another podcast, but I was talking about when you are training to be a drug rep you know, part of the training is to go out and pitch to real doctors.

Adam Walker:And I remember on that day she could see I, I looked like I was gonna be sick. I felt, I thought the whole thing was horrific. What am I doing here? And she pointed it out to me before I went and she just said to me, just remember. You don't have to be like everybody else. You can be who you are because you've got skills, frankly, that other people don't have.

Adam Walker:And so that really helped me. It stopped me being sick, obviously on the day. But actually what was really interesting is I got exactly that kind of feedback from those doctors. I got very positive feedback and. The feedback from most of hers. She was, you know, she was great to spend some time with. She wasn't like the typical rep.

Adam Walker:She did things differently. And the other thing is she asked a lot of questions. And, you know, that's often my strategy because I never go into anything assuming I know everything. So, yeah, I guess they would be my early mentors. It depends, you know, I think mentoring is an interesting concept because there are so many different styles of mentorship aren't there.

Adam Walker:But I guess those would be my early mentors. I, I, I definitely looked up to all of them because they were women in senior positions and they encouraged me. All of them encouraged me individually to actually first and foremost believe in myself.

Adam Walker:I think that's a, it is a really interesting observation, obviously, for you as a woman in business, a significant woman these days in business.

Adam Walker:Having people in those positions of authority 20 plus years ago must have been quite powerful. I do also recall. First coming into clinical research and recognizing how many more women there were in positions of authority than I expected. Actually, I think I may have had a preconceived idea that there were mainly men, but it seems seemed then and seems even more so to be balanced a, as an industry fairly well balanced, and I think that's only continued in that particular vein.

Adam Walker:Many of my best. Managers and people that I've reported to have also been women. I personally find it a lot easier to get on with women than I do with men. I dunno why that is. They're softer, they're more compassionate, they're more empathetic than most fairly strong, sharp elbowed men can be.

Adam Walker:And those are the types of people that I tend to identify with as well. So that does resonate quite loudly. Um.

Adam Walker:Yeah, it's a fascinating insight you provide there, but also I think now you are one of those voices of the industry. You are a woman in significant positions of authority where you've had that opportunity to influence.

Adam Walker:And how has that played out for you in those positions of influence?

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: Well, the other thing I'm gonna say to start with is that women are more honest with their feedback as well. It's a really different trait that you, it's a distinctive trait actually, in my experience. Working with men and with women.

Adam Walker:And by the way, I mentor more men than I mentor women actually. And I love doing that and I love working with men and always have. I certainly think when you are when you are working closely with other. People, it's great to have a mix as well, but as a woman, as a leader, as a business leader, as a female CEO, I was often the only woman in the room, particularly, you know, in bringing private equity into iis, as I did, you know, I was the only woman around the boardroom table and.

Adam Walker:Up until very recently, again, probably the only woman in the boardroom, one of the only women CEOs who built a business to the size and scale that I just became. In those days, that was very, very unusual. The one of the only women, or one of the first women, certainly in the pharma services space, to secure private equity backing for a business that was already proven.

Adam Walker:You know, I could go to. Um, Mar I could go to market. I could go and talk to investors about a business that was already profitable and that I'd been leading. I think if I was going out in those days and the business was smaller and less profitable, I don't think I would've been taken as seriously at all.

Adam Walker:And so how does it work out for me? I am really, I'm a major advocate of mentoring and coaching. Men and women who are coming up through the ranks. You know, I chair two med device med tech companies today. Uh, both are run by first time CEOs. One is female, the other is male, you know, similar, uh, challenges, similar traits.

Adam Walker:There are definitely differences between the male and the female in some respects. But in terms of, you know, what I'm working on them with, I think I can. I'm very interested in helping them and I adapt to support them and help them and enable them. That's my job and often I actually, many times I've particularly men have reached out to me on LinkedIn asking for mentorship.

Adam Walker:And if ever somebody asks me to do that, even if I don't know who they are, I've never met them, I will always respond to them. I've all, that is just the way I am. I, because to me it takes a lot of courage to reach out and ask somebody for help. You know, my early days, I guess that's one thing I would've done more of, but I'm always very willing to support people who are looking for support and people who need it.

Adam Walker:Particularly those today who are going up through the ranks and trying to build a business or trying to internationalize a company. You know, if I've got skills that I think are relevant to them then, and there's a good chemistry, because I think that's important too. You know, I, I feel that my strengths as a mentor myself are good and, and relevant.

Adam Walker:There's definitely times when it's not a dynamic that's gonna work. So I think I've got a responsibility to lead in whatever role I play today, whether I'm in a non-exec capacity, which is pretty typical at the moment or whether I'm an advisor. You know, I, I feel like, I don't like the term, it's my time to give back.

Adam Walker:I don't like that. So it's not a give back situation. Um, it, it's a skillset that needs to be used. I'm a sounding board that, uh, can be provided to help other people. So that's how I look at it and it's rewarding for me as well. I genuinely wouldn't do it just for charitable reasons. You know, I find it really rewarding if, um, you know, there's a really positive result for that person as a result of some advice, uh, or counsel I've given.

Adam Walker:Thank you for explaining that and giving a bit more color to the question. I think.

Adam Walker:It wasn't really, I wasn't really going down the route of, it wasn't the gender question. That's, that wasn't necessarily, it was more around characteristics. And I'm just curious around, you know, the kind of characteristics you think lend themselves to good leadership.

Adam Walker:What is it that you pride yourself on, that you look for and encouraging in those that you are guiding? What do you think are the best characteristics?

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: It's such an, that's such a good question. I'm sorry I didn't answer your question properly. It just, you know, things just spring to mind and you just, how you respond to somebody's question, you can't always guarantee how it's gonna turn out.

Adam Walker:I think that's a really interesting question and I think it has to, the answer to which has to start with, it really depends. There are some fundamental factors to me that are really important in leadership and you know, one of those is honesty. Conveying honesty and being genuine. I believe I was always that person.

Adam Walker:Some people can't take it right? Some people can't take the honesty, but that to me is fundamental in leadership, being wi willing to listen. I think this can be a real flaw when you are, uh, leading a business for the first time or if you haven't got a lot of support, you know, you feel like you have to do everything or you have to know all the answers.

Adam Walker:Not that you do, but that you have to be seen to know all the answers. And, you know, that's, if leadership to me is about. Asking those questions if you don't know. And that's all part of the authenticity, the honesty, you know, being human I think is what's really critical. Sense of humor. It gets really tough sometimes in leadership, doesn't it?

Adam Walker:I mean, I led a major turnaround at healthcare at home. I think everybody knows that that was a really, really fraught and emotional situation. And you know, you've gotta walk into that situation providing. Courage, confidence and calm, uh, to people. So, you know, I think your leadership skill, you have to be highly empathetic, I think, and have a high level of EQ because it's the human factors.

Adam Walker:You know, you started this podcast talking about the human factors. It's the human elements that make leadership so powerful, either positively or negatively. Being seen to be someone who can be calm and confident in a storm and also bring you along the journey. You know, sometimes you leave people behind and that's not always great leadership and sometimes you have to leave them behind 'cause it's the best thing for the business.

Adam Walker:I'm not sure I'm answering your question again. I'm gonna stop talking and you can tell me, redirect me or otherwise.

Adam Walker:I think in a roundabout way, you, you've answered it very succinctly. Communication is pivotal. Clearly communication is pivotal, and you made reference earlier to some of the skills that differentiated you from the other bio scientists in the room with your marketing background.

Adam Walker:I think there is a comp complementarity, I'll put my teeth back in. I think there is a complementarity to the skillset. That you had then that has continued in all that you do. But I think you don't have to be the smartest person in the room and know all the facts. As long as you are aware of where those answers are, you can put your hand to it, or you know the person in the room that does have those answers, you're good.

Adam Walker:It really doesn't matter that's my experience as well in that I don't always. I never expect to be the, the smartest person in the room. There are far more highly qualified masters and PhDs in the room, and as long as you know where to go for those answers and you can get your hands on them and these people engage with you, more importantly, it's all good.

Adam Walker:But those characteristics, I think ultimately it comes back to communication, doesn't it? It's always about communication. It's about the human contact.

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: It absolutely is. You're right. I, I think the other thing to say, I've, what I've learned being more non-exec in the last sort of five or six years is that lead, you can still lead, but you're leading from the back rather than the front.

Adam Walker:So I've actually learned a lot about leadership being in that role. I compare it to what it's like leading the business. So, you know, I can see what it's like being in that CEOC, which is what I think helps me be an effective non-exec or chair. But there are times when in that role, and it's actually quite a comforting role sometimes to be in, where you don't have to be the loudest voice.

Adam Walker:I'm not saying you always have to be anyway, but you don't have to be at the front necessarily. Some of the skills I've learned is about how to lead more quietly. And it goes back to my asking questions scenario, and I'm quite comfortable actually in that situation quite often just asking questions and sometimes the answer comes because you've asked that question, you know, that person answers the question and the, the.

Adam Walker:Penny drops for them. And so to me, my style of leadership has actually evolved a lot. Um, and it, it is quite a nice, it's quite a nice way to feel like you are still building your leadership skills and you are using your leadership skills. It's been quite an interesting experience. I won't say transition, um, but it's, it's been an interesting experience for me.

Adam Walker:I appreciate you clarifying that around that particular point.

Adam Walker:Skills. Yeah, skills come in different shapes and sizes and uh, and there is no one size fits all is there. Uh, the non-exec role sounds really interesting and it's something that I often see in and around LinkedIn and I see referenced in people's bio biographies.

Adam Walker:How did you get into that in the first place? Were you approached or did you actively go seeking those?

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: My very first couple of non-exec roles came when I was still at ida. So the first one for me was with a nonprofit called Global Genes. I was very engaged in the rare disease community and I was approached by somebody who was very involved in that organization and asked to join the board.

Adam Walker:So that was a role that lasted for almost eight years when I became the vice chair, and that was a really informative. Number of years actually, and gave me good insight into, again, some leadership from the back. Um, but I've been approached every time I've actually been approached. I haven't. I haven't gone out seeking.

Adam Walker:The next one was a, a small female health company based in San Diego. Again, I was approached through some bankers I knew and laterally, um, the two med tech, med device companies I chair. I was approached by the British Growth Fund about those particular opportunities. So I've always been approached with very specific goals in mind.

Adam Walker:So yeah, that's how it's happened really. Yeah, I can't think of a single situation where I have gone out looking.

Adam Walker:Clearly your reputation precedes you and whatever you're doing, you're doing great in that particular area.

Adam Walker:On a personal note, I know you travel all around the world and you have homes all over the place.

Adam Walker:Whenever I speak to you, you might be in Switzerland one day, you might be in the US another day, you might be in London. Another how do you coordinate that around life, personal family? Is that challenging?

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: It's a great question. I mean, that's part of my, um, that's part of my sort of curiosity, exploration personality.

Adam Walker:I do like a bit of variety. It has to be said, right? I do get a little bit, I can't sit still for too long. I like to have different things going on, and that's been constant in my life. I would say though, in the last few years I've been more non-exec, largely because my son, I've got one amazing son, who he's a, he's going into his final, um, senior school high school.

Adam Walker:The last few years have been really important for me to spend more time with him. It's been a fantastic part of my growth journey as well. Spending more time with a teenager and I've wanted to spend more time at home as well, which has been amazing. So most of the time I'm where he is, but some of my non-exec work takes me to London regularly, where you know.

Adam Walker:Chair a couple of British businesses. Also, it gives me a chance to see my family, my parents, uh, and my brother down in Dset. Um, and to catch up with my friends. So London for me is still a sort of business hub, but it's also a big part of my life being in the UK because my family and friends are there.

Adam Walker:So it's always gonna be my second home. And, you know, buzzing between Switzerland and the US has been, it's just happened to be that way for the past, over 10 years of my life. But the more I spend time in Switzerland, the more I love it as well. Maybe it's an age thing, I don't know. But um, yeah, it's, it's just been part of who I've been and I think as part of who we are as a family, we're an international unit at this point.

Adam Walker:So yeah, it's just, I. I, I can't say anything other than that. I just enjoy it and I'm used to it. Whatever you're doing it,

Adam Walker:it's clearly working, isn't it? It's giving you that global spread, both physically and virtually Actually, yeah. I mean,

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: I'm attached to each place. That's the point. There's an attachment, there's something, you know, there's a hold in each place, which makes it even more.

Adam Walker:Interesting. I don't need to travel for travel's sake. I used to travel a lot with my CEO roles. I definitely wouldn't wanna go back to that weekly commute like I did for so long. Um, so there's, there's a hook in every place for me, which makes it feel like home whenever I'm there. But I like the variety of different cultures and different experiences,

Adam Walker:I should say.

Adam Walker:We did share a very nice lunch not so long ago, and, um. And I should thank you for that. I should thank you for that. You've given us an amazing insight into, into your background and and everything that you're doing currently.

Adam Walker:Natalie, I always like to round up with a quick fire round, and I just wonder what is, what is the one piece of advice you would give to your younger self?

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: I think the one piece of advice I would give to my younger self, particularly in a professional capacity, but maybe also in a personal capacity, is to find those mentors. Uh, look for people that can really support you and help you along the way. I definitely think that's the one thing I think would've made a difference in a couple of situations for me.

Adam Walker:Yeah, that's it. Really. Find the mentors. I, I didn't. Necessarily understand the need to look for help or maybe help is the wrong word, but to look for support, look for mentorship, look for coaching. Uh, that came later in my career. And of course it's invaluable, but I could have done with it probably 10 years earlier than I sought it out.

Adam Walker:Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more on that point. The three top qualities you value most when building a team? I think you've already made mention to a couple of those, but.

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: Oh my God. Honesty and trust. I mean, trust is a very big thing for me. It's, it's an underlined in red capital letters word. It's the, it's what? It's everything about my professional and personal being. It's so vital. So trust and, and honesty to me. Go com, a combined commitment. For sure.

Adam Walker:Looking for people that really commit, really, you know, are passionate, but commitment trust, honesty, and the other is the ability to keep up. It's the pace. I mean, I love working with people that, move fast because, and, and that's not to break things. I'm not a fan of that, but I move quickly and I love working with people that can move at the same, at the same pace.

Adam Walker:And I, I just, yeah. So those are the, those are the fundamentals. To me, it's a bit frustrating if those three straightforward things are not all combined in one package.

Adam Walker:I think we share that mutual high energy. Thank you. I

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: definitely, well, I know that's why we're really good friends, Adam,

Adam Walker:and what is your favorite thing outside of work?

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: Hanging out with my husband and my son. You know, when we're in the US we watch basketball. Basketball's a big thing for us and just hanging out. Really. We love cooking together as a family and I have to have a lot of friends and a lot of interests, art, interior design just hanging out, socializing.

Adam Walker:Just, I mean, it all sounds very boring but all of those things that you do with other people, I've got, I love hanging out with my friends and I love a bit of art and a little bit of community. I'm learning Italian and yeah, I'm learning Italian as well. What else do I do? I'm a busy, you know, I'm busy.

Adam Walker:I like to be, I like to be engaged and occupied.

Adam Walker:Finally your number one goal for life and for business.

Adam Walker:Speaker 2: I just wanna do something amazing. And I think a lot of what came with IDIs was amazing. You know, building a global brand, creating a whole new market. That was, I don't know if it was a professional goal, but I. I achieving that has, and seeing how that market has evolved has been amazing for me to feel that I have already achieved a lot.

Adam Walker:But really it's about feeling useful and being engaged to make change. Positive or make, I'm trying to avoid the term making a difference, but I can't. That's really what I'm all about. I like to make a difference and I need that. I need that in my personal and professional relationships.

Adam Walker:Natalie, to concur.

Adam Walker:You do make a difference. , I really appreciate you. You taking the time today, your honesty, your openness and humility, and sharing your truth. It's a delight. As I started, I'll finish with, you know, it's a delight to know you as a friend, as a colleague and a mentor, and I can't thank you enough for being on Pharma Prescribed Today.

Adam Walker:Thank you, Natalie.