Yuriy Lebid — Building a CRO in Ukraine, Wartime Resilience & Never Giving Up

**Adam Walker:** Welcome to the Pharma Prescribed Podcast.

I'm Adam Walker, a biometrics consultant looking to uncover the real stories behind life science leaders in clinical research. Today we have the honor of hosting Yuriy Lebid, the dynamic CEO of for Pharmaxi,, a leading contract research organization based in Ukraine. Yuri's journey nothing short of inspirational.

Since the onset of the conflict on February 24th, 2022, he's not only persevered, but has continued to lead and innovate in the face of adversity for Pharmaxi, LLC is a contract research organization with a keen focus on the regions of Ukraine and Poland. The organization offers a comprehensive range of services in the realms of clinical trials with emphasis on reg affairs, clinical monitoring, and data management.

Under his supervision, they've developed online CRF and in-house electronic data capture tool, which enables efficient and accurate data collection and trial monitoring. As the leader of PharmaPharmaxi, his personal objective is to establish a solid foundation for organic company growth while fostering a motivating work environment to attract talented and self-driven professionals.

Join us today as we delve into Yuri's remarkable story, exploring what drew him into the life sciences industry and how he's navigated the challenges to drive Pharmaxi's success. Yuri, welcome. It's great to see you again. How are you? Oh, I'm good. Thank you, Adam, for this wonderful introduction. I happy to be here today with you.

**Adam Walker:** It is been a little while since we last spoke, but for our audience who are not aware of your background, perhaps you could give them an idea of

How you came into the industry and how life is for you now. I came to the industry, in a, not a direct, simple way.

I, graduated medical university. And then, I decided that my pa passion. Closer to a scientific, area, not practical medicine. And then I, I, started my, scientific work in one of the leading Ukrainian, institutes, Ukrainian Academy of Science. I. And then after that I decided that, I have to think about family and, money, not about my personal inspirations And, in Ukraine those days, it was.

Not a good salary for young scientists. And, I decided that I have to do something and, there were two alternatives. One alternative is, trying to, to make money fast. We're trying to do not really, challenging work. So, money manifest, but no, no future. And, another, alternative was that, I can start making something, step by step, learning some new, things, became, more and more professional person and, then, earning, better, better money.

During the years, I selected the, the second option. And I'm happy with that, because I have found, clinical research industry as, as a, promising industry. And unfortunately in our university we do not have, good, course, dedicated to, clinical research. And, everything. What I know about clinical research, research was my self-education.

And, I was starting, from the creation of the protocol by myself. And I came through all, all this. Expertise and, all this knowledge by myself. And it gave me then, opportunity to evaluate people, to train them, to help them, in many aspects of clinical trial.

And now I have a company, which can provide everything from study design to final study report preparation. So my dream come true and, and I'm happy about it. That,

**Adam Walker:** that's a remarkable story. And, thank you for sharing. So it sounds like you, you learned through doing and you had an energy and an entrepreneurial thread that run through you from day one.

You've always had that as well as that scientific and medical background that, that drives your, your professional passion. Is that, is that fair? Yes. Yes. I think that passion is a key word, because, it, drove me, a lot and,

Motivates me a lot, I understand the overall impact, of this, industry.

For, treatment of challenging disease, et cetera. I really like medicine. I like science. Then, my passion, toward clinical research was enough to overcome, huge challenges. Yes. Because, no one, loves newcomers in, in clinical trials world. Sponsors wants to cooperate with well established company with, 20 years history.

And, it was just one of the. Serious different, challenges we overcome. This motivation, survived only because it was passion from inside. That's wonderful. It's the chicken and egg situation many new companies find, how do you get that first contract through the door when they want to know what your,

Your experience has been, no one wants to know that they're the first, right? Yes. So you either don't tell them, or you offset them against, a slightly warmer story around others that are, interested in your services, Exactly. It's a huge problem when, when we, we speak with, with client they say, okay, let's, let's, show your story and your portfolio.

And we say, our eyes, our motivation and our willingness to do as best as possible. You've just recently had your 10th anniversary for F MaPharmaxi, is that correct? Yes. Congratulations for that, but bearing in mind, the last years have been challenging for you.

Perhaps you could rewind a little and tell us how that's been and how that's played out for you. We've lived through a pandemic. Hoping we don't have to experience another one, but that was challenging for everyone globally. And then on the back of that, the worst thing happened imaginable for you.

Can you just rewind and, and if you wouldn't mind just sharing a little bit of your experience around that with our audience.

**Adam Walker:** It could be a very long story I try to make it short. So I, I never believe that it could happen and it was a lot of rumors, starting from November, 2021.

I was not prepared for the war itself. But, since we are in Ukraine and each three, four years, we have some crisis. Originated from political, financial, and other standpoints. We were prepared for, any type of crisis because of those lessons learned. When war, started, we relocated to western regions of Ukraine because it was a big risk to be occupied. And, Russians wanted to block Kyiv from West, including, our, satellite city, close to, Kyiv. During the first, week, was, almost no chance that Ukraine will stay.

And, one day I, even thinking that maybe it's over, when Russian tanks, appeared on some streets of Kyiv, It was, painful for me because I, know how to, operate as entrepreneur here in Ukraine. I know, How to train people, how to select them.

I know everything here. And all this, knowledge will be not so, important for, other country if I would relocate and, start building companies somewhere in the world. Therefore it was huge pain for me.

**Adam Walker:** And I was trying to balance company, to convince client that we can continue.

At least remote services and, I was thinking about, my employees because it was a situation of absolute chaos. Can you imagine that it's, 22nd February and salary should be in a week? Many of them, do not really know if they will have money in a week, and maybe they will, starve and, maybe company will not support them because everything is over, and they need money to relocate, to, rent some apartment somewhere outside of Kyiv.

A situation of complete chaos. Thinking about it, I understood that I have to support them, and I collected

Everyone. In the day of invasion, I gave several promises. I've said that, no one will be fired during the next six months. And I will pay salaries in full no matter what.

Even if we lose all our contracts, if we will have no money. From, outside, I have obligation to pay salaries for six months and, I was ready to lose, millions to support my people. And I think it was one of the, best decision to, to save company. That's incredible.

And to have taken that action must have been very difficult on the one hand, This is your baby, right? Yes. I know you have a daughter, but your business is your baby. How many people did you have on the payroll at that time? Around 30, 28. Wow.

So all of those people had to relocate their families, their lives I remember when we spoke at the time. People were working remotely because of the pandemic, weren't they? I remember you saying about phone lines being down, internet being an issue, safety certain times of day when you could travel or couldn't travel.

And then I recall, from previous conversations with you. There was, an inclination to move women and children to the safest parts of the West, to the west of the country, correct? And it's, it's an incredible story of resilience and heartwarming to hear that, but actually with the genuine concern and honesty with which you approach that,

I remember seeing things on the news that were so traumatic to watch and having spoken to you and WhatsApping I just wanted you to know from, not just my point of view, but everyone, in the UK and everyone watching from the outside, how terrible that looked,

At the time I was working with colleagues in Warsaw, and they felt very nervous. They'd opened their borders in Poland, and it felt like we'd gone back 70, 80 years. I wasn't in it. But you were? Yes. Yes. It, it was, darkest times in my life. Yeah. And you know, I, I can't.

I can't thank you enough for telling that story and telling your truth. There is an underlying resilience and strength within

You that clearly was always there. But I'm sensing that you gained some new skills and resilience that you didn't think you had before.

Is that a fair comment? Can you speak to that point? Yes. I could act those days because I cannot see any other option. It was just one option. I have to speak with clients, try to convince those clients to not, stop current trials.

I have to say that, we can, deliver remote services, statistics, data management to new clients. Conducted 90 calls during the, 30 days of the invasion, and it saved, company because several, several months, we paid salaries and, our money is evaporating very fast. The therefore, I was trying to, I remember this feeling as legs in the sand, when there is a huge background of news, stress, uncertainty. But I have to move forward.

So. May, maybe it make, make some, some something with me. Maybe now I am more confident that then I can manage, different type of crisis, within my company and, if. Before the war, I was not sure, about future of the company stability. Would we find, enough contracts for us? It was not completely, clear for me.

After this, story, I think that We passed this, severe test, and now I am quite confident that nothing will happen with the company if we survived the full scale invasion.

**Adam Walker:** I'm wondering about the logistics. You had trials ongoing, not just in Ukraine, but in other places.

How did those trials continue? Or did they go on hold if they were based in Ukraine? Were there areas where, clinical research could continue? The majority of trials were on hold, those days, we've had, no other presence.

We, we didn't have a Polish company. So almost all trials have been put on hold. And then during two or three months, we restarted, one trial. And, it was, really impressive that enrollment were, higher. Better than before the war. I was very much surprised, but then I understood that, since many, big companies, completely stopped their activities in Ukraine, then this clinic gave our patients just to, to our trial.

And it showed, that, that we can deliver. Even better enrollment than before the war. And, then, second trial have been renovated. It was Canadian biotech. And, they came to us, and, it was also really helpful. And, one company also came to us and they were asking, clinical performance study for their device.

Within six months, and, I, I was waiving could we really, perform clinical trial for six months? And I called to the regulatory agency and they said that they could provide, approval within one month. And then I decided that we can try and, we did this, crazy study in, in a very short timeline.

Therefore it is a story of, those, days in 2022. That's wonderful. And thank you for sharing.

**Adam Walker:** So how has that played out for you since, so I gather that you established. A company in Poland as well. Farm actually now exists in, in Poland as well. So did that open opportunities both in Poland and beyond?

Across across Europe? Is that how it played out for you? Yes. Sure, sure. Poland now is, is a, a quite big portion of our business, overall business and, clients, are coming to Poland because of big population, because huge number of, good, study sites. The yes, there are some, some delays with regulatory.

So regulatory process is longer in Poland than in Ukraine, and the contracting process is with investigators, is also longer than in Ukraine. But overall we have a very good, place for, clinical trials and. Now we have a quite big number of incoming requests, when people, is, looking for, CRO support in Poland.

Therefore it's quite, rapidly, evolving, picture, in, in our company. So how do you, how have you split that across the two geographies then with

Regards to your staff? How many do you have in each location Do they work autonomously yes, they can work autonomously.

We sometimes do, centralized activities from Ukraine and, Poland is focusing on local activities like regulatory and, onsite monitoring. People, it's 30% in Poland and 70% in Ukraine.

I think that dynamic in Poland is quite good. I've done lots of work in Poland over the last few years. There are a lot of big pharma Making significant investments, not just in Warsaw, but in various other parts of the country. Interesting place with some very highly skilled individuals.

I've been nothing less than impressed by the people I've come across, not just linguistically, but scientifically, their education is, really strong. From a cultural point of view, I think there is a very close alignment, but actually very close dynamic around the cultures in Poland and the UK

So I've gotten very well with colleagues there. We've had a lot of fun, and I can speak to a lot of nice places that I've been to in Warsaw.

**Adam Walker:** So you do quite a bit of traveling these days. Watching your LinkedIn feed you appear to be at many conferences.

Are you being invited now as a keynote speaker? Are you talking about your experiences? How is that for you? Yes, now I, invited as a, as a speaker, to say how company could survive during, disaster. Yes. And, since we created, some. Pillars, of the long-term stability of the company before the crisis.

I try to explain to audience, that you can, think about some important elements of company resilience, if any type of crisis will happen. I will not say about war. I am saying about, environmental crisis, political crisis, and energy crisis, anything. Then this, several principles could help companies survive if some actions will be, will be implemented beforehand, when waters are come.

When there is no time pressure, in this moment a company could easily build resilience. But, if some, crisis happen, then there is no time for preparation. And, it, it's, it's, it's a big losses for company and, some companies do not, even survive because they're totally unprepared.

Yeah. You've touched on effectively, I think disaster recovery planning. Most CROs and pharma companies I work with definitely have an SOP around that. I don't think they have a lived experience other than experience of the pandemic.

Disaster recovery is clearly at the forefront of everything that you and FXI have achieved over this last three or four years.

So are there now freedom of movement across borders? Are you able to travel to the west of the country through Poland into the rest of Europe now? Now we have a lot of restrictions. People from 18 to 60 are not allowed, to cross the border.

I need special status and permission to cross the border. Since our company belongs to critical infrastructure. We have rights to reserve people from mobilization and it also gives rights for crossing the border for business reasons.

So I cannot cross border for just vacation. I have to provide evidences that it's business reasons. And, then, actually I just, returned from travel. Which has taken more than one month. I try to, to speak with people to show that Ukraine, is living, everything works and, traffic in Kyiv is, like, in any city.

So we, we live. Usual life and, maybe we even more focused on productivity and efficiency, than other, calmer states and countries.

Thank you for sharing that.

**Adam Walker:** I'm wondering your experiences both personally and professionally, presumably have changed your perspective on what's important. What have you learned

Maybe the most important thing is that. I truly realized that, country and motherland means a lot. I can think about it theoretically before the war. I was never thinking about immigration and, in different countries. But now it's like a proof.

Approved thesis proved idea, because I can compare my feeling when I relocated to different city, not different country, and I relocate. When I relocated to Lviv, it was a different feeling inside. As like similar to background stress and they cannot identify the source of the stress.

And when I get back to my home, it evaporates immediately. I. I felt myself rooted, and then my, productivity and, life became, happier more productive. It was the biggest discovery that our home is our castle. An incredible point

It's something that my wife and I talk about a lot We've got children who are. 22 and 20. They're both at university, but they love coming home This is their safe space where they can just be kids if they wanna be kids.

It's a really important point that not just home is where the heart is, but you made the point earlier around doing your best work when the distractions. When you need to be in that head space to get things done. I do remember what that was like during the pandemic as a family of four.

We sat down and said, we are gonna have to really knuckle down here. We're gonna have to just crack on and look after one another, make sure

That we do our best. We save ourselves physically and emotionally, because that felt like a wartime footing for me and my family.

I remember, protecting the people around us. Being the most important thing. Without family, what do you have? I really appreciate you sharing that, Yuri, I think our listeners will also appreciate that.

**Adam Walker:** Looking forward now, you've passed that 10 year anniversary, which is remarkable and congratulations for that.

I'd love to know what your thoughts are around. What you'd like to do with your wonderful colleagues that you've supported through this really difficult time. You are asking about future. Yes. I think that's, the first problem was to stabilize company.

We achieved that. And now we are, like in the stable position with a good pipeline, with, Workload right now. So we have been stabilized and, my dream is to, come again growth. I suppose each company could grow, steadily or, faster.

Each company should grow, It is a new win for employees. It is opportunity to, to occupy, new positions. So it is, so thi this dynamics, should be in the company. And my next, idea and dream is to get to company growth. Therefore now I invest a lot, time and money.

Traveling and speaking with people we can deliver good service wonderful enrollment rate, very good quality. Customers could use this moment because it is unique It's a fruitful space for clinical trials. Many trained, investigators, no competition with other trials.

Good cost effectiveness, so it's like a ideal and temper temporarily, available situation. Because of those theoretical risks, which mathematically not so high,

I did not relocate my family. I. My daughter and my wife, live with me because real danger of damage is not higher than car accidents statistically.

It's a beautiful space for clinical trials. And, more customer will know about that, then we, we can, we will come to, growth, opening new positions, talented people to the company. My desire. I think that when war will come to the end, we'll, turn to the mode of seeking new clients to the company scaling because we are now mo most famous Ukrainian, CRO, sometimes when, customers speak with me, they say that people in Ukraine. From different industries and, they told that XI could help you.

So only one name now well known in Ukraine. Therefore, when this, negative background and, war related risk will be evaporated, then I expect that it'll be, very good time for company scale. That's brilliant. I'm so pleased for you, not just for you personally, but for your business, the fact that you have that outlook and that you've turned a situation that could have been terminal into something where there is a positive future.

For not just you, your colleagues, your family, the country, there is an awful lot of support outside of your country for your people. I hope that's clear when you travel. In the conversations we've had over the years as well.

I remember the first post you put out, it was a picture of your daughter, on Independence Day? I seem to remember in the Square, and that resonated with me, I sent you a direct message on LinkedIn and from that point we were connected spoke regularly.

And I think that was a very powerful message that you put out on that particular day. There are human stories behind every situation, and I you really are, testament to that.

We're with you I think it's important that you know that. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your experiences, Yuri, I'd love to have another conversation in the future.

**Adam Walker:** What I like to do at the end of is finish with some quick fire questions, if you wouldn't mind, bearing in mind some of the things they might be even more relevant, is there one piece of advice you would give to your younger self, bearing in mind some of the things that you've talked about today?

Oh, maybe the better advice, you shouldn't, think more about fears. You have to think more about opportunities. Fears, very much restrict us. They are, theoretical and not real. The number of those, theoretical fears in my younger age, were less then my progress would have been better.

That's wonderful. With the benefit of wisdom and age, we definitely learn more, through our negative experiences, but also some of those things you worry about just never come true.

What are the top three qualities you value most when building a team? The first quality is, honesty. I have. Many questions in my structured interview when I can understand the honesty of the person.

And there is nothing about qualification. Even super qualified person, will not be hired by our company if there are doubts. In, in honesty. And the second, moment I try evaluate is the level of intrinsic motivation. And, when I ask why you want to come in clinical research, I am not listening.

I see, the person's eyes, and if there is a fire in the eye, then yes, it's our person. If there is just. Theoretical statements with no fire I love that. Do I have the fire in my eyes? Yes.

Thank you. I put you on the spot there.

The fact that we're still having these conversations, speaks to that as well. The third one, is the, ability to learn new things. And I, if I just ask about it, every person say, sure. I like to learn new things every time.

So it's difficult to evaluate, real situation. And I, I try to ask some things, to understand if this person, really open for a continuous, learning of new things. And in clinical trials. It's a long run. Situation is changing, very fast. And, regulation is changing we are dealing with, different types of projects.

We need people who are, fans learning new things. Clinical research changes all the time, The regulations are changing. Certainly the challenges are never the same in two different days. It doesn't matter what phase you're working in.

Rare disease, real world evidence. It's whether or not you come with a growth mindset, isn't it? It's the open mind and open heart.

**Adam Walker:** would you tell us and the audience what's your favorite thing outside of work? Tennis. I like tennis. Are you still very good at it?

Are you still winning? Yes. Sometimes yes, I participate in a mature tournament. I try to play three, four times per week. Therefore it gives me a, fresh mind again. It's a huge and the nervous system should be reloaded.

A way of just sitting after work. And brain will not be, refreshed, just sitting or even watching tv. It's not so intense, shifting, to, to the different type of action. But tennis, when I can see just ball and the, score on, on the table, then I, my mind became fresh again.

What's your best action? Is it forehand, backhand, smash, lob, forehand. It's forehand down the line. Are you left or right-handed? Yes. Right-handed. Yes. Right-handed. I'm a lefty. I can't do anything. Right. That's my joke.

You're super creative, therefore you invent, new things of doing, ordinary, things. That's my excuse. I'll stick to that one. Yeah. I like that. Thank you so much. And Yuri, finally, what is your number one? For life of the business. Number one golden rule is that, I have to do everything from passion and from internal energy and internal fire.

I know many stories when smart people. Trying to calculate. They were not thinking about heart. They were thinking about numbers, and they were thinking, oh, this industry is better. I will go to go to university to know how to construct things.

I don't like it, but good money there. Money will compensate my internal discomfort. 20, 25 years past, I speak with those persons and they are not happy. Therefore, for all, young people who think about money first or passion first, I would say that passion is first and then, money will find you anywhere.

Is that what you say to your daughter? Yes. I'd say the same to my kids. What's your daughter's name, if you don't mind me asking? Irina. Sure she has enormous pride for the work that you're doing and for the work you're doing with Pharmaci spreading the word of, the experiences you've had over the last few years.

Thank you. It's been a wonderful conversation, Yuri, and I wanted to thank you For your honesty, openness, and for sharing your story. I'm so pleased it's playing out so well for you.

**Adam Walker:** For our audience, if they want to reach out to you, I know we have a lot of listeners, of course across pharma life sciences.

How would they be best placed to make contact with you? Maybe the best way is to contact me while LinkedIn. I read LinkedIn and, I open to new connections. It's great to, to speak with, brilliant people and industry is full of bright personalities and, I really love when our, business relationships converting to,

Personal friendship of, and personal relationships. And, it is the big beauty of my work and this industry, we can speak with, bright, smart, passionate people and, exchange ideas and enrich, our life emotionally and intellectually. Thank you. That's really helpful.

Interestingly, I've also just come back from a conference in Frankfurt. As you say, people are aligned around their purpose, but the principles and values with which they come to work, I've always found that to

Be the thing that connects people irrespective of what their job is, what their job title is, where they're located.

We all have that passion. The shared passion is to do good for the greater good. To serve patients, of course, to bring medicines to market as quickly as we can, but do it with a smile on our face and to share our, our stories of incredible resilience, but also, what could we do better?

Often the best conversations are the ones that are unplanned, unstructured and just play out the way they are. Yuri, it's been an absolute delight speaking to you today, and thank you for coming on Pharma Prescribed Podcast. Thank you. Thank you, Adam. Thank you for invitation and I hope that we will speak, later on a personal, level and, maybe common project will come later.

I would love that as the finishing point. Let's make that happen. Thank you, Yuri. Thank you very much.