Anders Mortin — TriTiCon: Humanizing Biometrics Data

Speaker:I am Adam Walker, a biometrics consultant, and this is the Pharma Prescribed Podcast where leaders, innovators, and hidden voices in healthcare open up, no sound bites, no spin, just raw insight, one prescription at a time. In an industry driven by data protocols and pressure, we rarely pause to ask the human questions.

Speaker:What drives us, what challenges us, and what truths live behind the titles we wear?

Speaker:Today\'s guest, Anders Morton, is a seasoned eClinical professional with over two decades of experience in clinical development processes and systems known for his strategic vision and leadership, Anders excels in managing cross-functional teams and driving innovative solutions.

Speaker:As a co-founder of the Copenhagen based pharma consulting firm, Tricon, which was established in 2015, he\'s been instrumental in shaping the company\'s success. Anders holds a master\'s degree in engineering physics from Lund University in Sweden, and has been a key player in the industry since the early nineties.

Speaker:His extensive background in business data and project management has provided a solid foundation for the company\'s diverse services. Anders, welcome to Pharma Prescribe. How are you today? Thank you.

Speaker 3: Thank you, Adam. I\'m fine. Fine. Thank you.

Speaker:It\'s an amazing backdrop. You\'re gonna have to tell our, our listeners, viewers where, where you, where you position today, because I\'ve not seen a backdrop like.

Speaker 3: No. Yeah, so ~~we,~~ we can ~~kinda~~ stop the distraction from that one upward. Now, I\'m, ~~uh,~~ this is one of the meeting rooms is in, in the hospital in Copenhagen that where we have our, our offices and, ~~um,~~ we\'ve got a couple of different meeting rooms all with different teams. So this is the hunting cabin. We\'ve got Bali.

Speaker 3: We\'ve got Nasza and a couple of other ones, ~~right.~~ So they, they all got very different looks and size and shapes, and this was the one that was available for me today. So I picked this one, ~~right.~~

Speaker:It\'s fabulous. And it\'s just brilliant. ~~Um,~~ I think you\'ve probably left your horse out the side, right? So you\'re just I didn\'t indeed.

Speaker:Indeed. I didn\'t indeed. Yeah. Yes.

Speaker:So, so for, for those of our audience who, dunno, you, Anders, ~~uh,~~ we\'ve got to know each other quite a bit over the last, ~~uh,~~ period of time. Tell us a little bit more about yourself, how you came into the industry and, ~~uh,~~ what it is that gets you outta bed in the morning.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 3: So I, I guess the industry, right, is ing it seems like most people, a lot of people at least that you meet in the industry, ended up here by accident, right? ~~Um,~~ at least if we\'re talking about the biometrics data management space, right? Maybe people have le less in the medical, ~~uh,~~ or statistical spaces. But, ~~uh,~~ for me, data management, ~~um.~~

Speaker 3: Clinical space. I definitely meet a lot of people with, with very diverse backgrounds. I, as, as you mentioned, right? I got a background in engineering physics. ~~Um,~~ I slipped into this during my university studies where one of my friends and colleagues of, of, ~~uh,~~ in a, ~~um,~~ in a, in a team of handball, ~~um,~~ that I was playing in, he asked me, you know, ~~um,~~ can anyone come to of the training?

Speaker 3: Can I know one come two work and my data\'s company tomorrow? Right? Because we need, we need help and hands. I was studying and, ~~uh,~~ I needed some extra money to go skiing and all kinds of stuff. So I said, okay, why not? I\'ll, I\'ll drop in and I\'ll earn some money. And, ~~uh,~~ that was a, a small CRO at the time.

Speaker 3: And, ~~uh,~~ the job was, ~~uh,~~ data entry in the good old days. So paper-based crs, data entry, writing queries, queries by hand. ~~Um.~~ So I slipped in there and, and after I finished the studies, I, I, hang on for a bit. ~~Um,~~ but having studied physics and laser optics and what have you, right? I thought I need to try that out.

Speaker 3: So I, I honestly tried to escape, ~~uh,~~ the business for a bit. Got the job in another city, ~~um,~~ doing laser optics, ~~um,~~ of having moved there with my girlfriend at the time, you know? Bringing all our stuff and all of that and, and, and decided to move when I\'d worked there, ~~um,~~ one day, less than a month, which is the key breaking point in Swedish employment laws.

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ they had a big meeting. This was a small company, about a hundred people. ~~Um,~~ and they said, ~~you know,~~ the, the CEO also being the CFO has suddenly left and the money and the economic financials does not look, look at all, as he has mentioned. ~~Uh,~~ meaning, ~~uh,~~ 20% of you need to go. ~~Um.~~ Less than a month old in the company.

Speaker 3: You are the last one in, you\'re the first one to go. So, ~~uh,~~ I lost my job off less than a month, just before Christmas. ~~Um,~~ and I guess kind of that is that like, okay, cool. I, I, I\'m going back to that other business, that pharma business and, ~~uh,~~ I\'ve hung on since I would say, ~~um,~~ in data management, ~~um,~~ system implementations, project management on different sorts.

Speaker 3: And, ~~um,~~ here I am still now as, ~~uh,~~ since more than 10 years, right, as a contract. Okay,

Speaker:well, that, that\'s a very roundabout, ~~um,~~ example of how people do stumble into this, ~~uh,~~ industry, as you say. ~~Um,~~ I can\'t honestly say I deliberately went into data management either. I definitely wanted to work in and around, ~~uh,~~ medical science, whatever that was.

Speaker:And this appeared to be a way to get in and, you know, be around that medical information, which I was so fascinated about. So I\'m assuming, I\'m assuming it\'s been, it\'s been a good career and. And you are enjoying what you\'re doing and, and how you\'re doing it. Tell us more.

Speaker 3: Indeed. Indeed. Right.

Speaker 3: And I think the medical aspect of things, right?

Speaker 3: I, I, I was.

Speaker 3: Appliances, if you like, or applying the physics into the medical space. That has always interested me and, ~~uh, uh,~~ that also I guess, was appealing for me in, in, in, in, in this industry. Now also of causing that my education is beneficial for me here as well. And sometimes I\'m recognizing something right. ~~You know, uh,~~ PK data is similar to nuclear decay, ~~uh,~~ mathematics.

Speaker 3: So I recognize some things here and there. Right. ~~Um,~~ but, but, but other than that, ~~um,~~ it is, has been a good career for me for sure. Right. And I enjoy being the. Absolutely.

Speaker:That\'s wonderful. I, I, I\'ve never thought of it that way actually, but PK and nuclear decay, I must have that conversation with my pharmacokinetic friend about that.

Speaker:Yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah. That, that, that\'s like the one space I can understand it, ~~right?~~ I guess we can understand each other. ~~Right.~~ But I think it\'s example, ~~right?~~ It\'s interesting if you look a little bit deeper, if you\'re a little bit more curious about different people and what they do, there are these crossovers.

Speaker:Absolutely. It, it\'s, it\'s fascinating. It\'s, it\'s a brilliant insight into, into how different different people see things and how we develop our ideas around that.

Speaker:So, ~~um,~~ you\'re based in Copenhagen. It\'s a place that I, I know and love very well. I, I. Shared with you previously that I worked and, ~~uh,~~ stayed there for two and a half years with, with one of our, our friendly Danish pharmaceutical companies and had a wonderful experience there.

Speaker:What brought you to Copenhagen, if you don\'t mind me asking?

Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I guess the two things bringing you around, ~~right?~~ It, it, it, it\'s love and, and it\'s work normally, ~~right?~~ In this case is, was, I guess started with work, because I started working here. It\'s a close commute from, from where I lived on the Swedish side here.

Speaker 3: ~~Right.~~ That, ~~um, uh,~~ and I met a woman over here, ~~right.~~ Fell in love and ~~um,~~ moved across fully in 2013. ~~Um,~~ actually started here. So I\'ve. Working Copenhagen for more than 20 years now, and I lived here for more, more than 10. ~~Right.~~ So, so, ~~um,~~ I guess both the typical, the, the traditional both factors. ~~Uh,~~ one first and then the other make me kind of move over and stay.

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ yeah.

Speaker:That\'s brilliant. That\'s brilliant. I mean, ~~uh,~~ my family, my family and I took a number of holidays in Copenhagen and we have only fond memories of that lovely coastline. ~~Um.~~ All around, all around the Copenhagen Periphery and, ~~uh,~~ dear Har, which I\'m reminded of by looking at your backdrop, looking at it.

Speaker:Yeah. Actually, dear Har was one of those places for sure. The kids loved it.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it is, it is indeed. ~~Right.~~ And I would be an alternative background for me. ~~Right.~~ If I, if I were at home, would be the, ~~uh,~~ say the wood line. ~~Right. Uh,~~ which we\'re lucky to have close by.

Speaker:Yeah. That\'s brilliant. ~~Um,~~

Speaker:so tell us a little bit more about Tricon.

Speaker 3: it did come about, ~~uh,~~ with a, again, going back to that this, ~~um,~~ like odd for many people in the world may, ~~um,~~ team sports of, of, of team handball, ~~um,~~ where I played and, ~~um. Uh,~~ is that where, where kind of, in a way put me into the business?

Speaker 3: That got me into this business. And, ~~um,~~ actually in 2015, an old friend of mine, a former, again, another teammate reached out to me and he said, Hey, you know, I\'m a stage in my life there. I wanna make a change. ~~Um,~~ you know, I wanna start a company. I would prefer not doing it myself. Right. ~~Um,~~ would you be interested in joining that?

Speaker 3: And I was at that time. ~~Uh,~~ yeah, I\'ve been in, in, ~~um,~~ doing the, in a way, corporate ladder, ~~uh,~~ the, the normal things and, and, and growing my responsibilities and tried a lot of different things. But I also ended up in, in finding myself in a situation in, in like, ~~um,~~ typical line material, ~~um,~~ managerial, ~~um,~~ situation where that, okay, most of my time is, ~~um,~~ is meetings, is discussions, is not really doing the work.

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ I do love, ~~uh,~~ leadership aspects. I do love helping, facilitating for people to grow, ~~um,~~ create the right circumstances for people to, to, to thrive. ~~Um,~~ but, but I ended up, again, I, I felt at the time that was really appealing to me to kind of change the game in that sense because I was, ~~uh,~~ in, in that kind of mace.

Speaker 3: Right. ~~Um,~~ and, ~~um,~~ also I think personally that was a really good time because I think I wanted to. Partly changing game as well when it comes to the, the, in a way, the work life balance and the flexibility that I really, ~~um,~~ needed to, wanted to have around that time. I had a 2-year-old daughter at that time, and, and two live with older boys.

Speaker 3: Well, and, ~~um, um,~~ I wanted some more flexibility, so combining the two, ~~um,~~ I said, okay, cool. Yeah, now\'s the time. Let\'s try this out. And, ~~um,~~ we started off Tricon, ~~um,~~ still very small when it comes to employees, ~~uh,~~ company. It\'s my, my, my colleague and co-founder, Magnus and myself. I. ~~Uh,~~ we have been a little bit, bit bigger from time to time, ~~uh,~~ with employees, but primarily we\'re working with a lot of partnership collaborations, ~~um,~~ subcontracting, ~~uh,~~ which I think is a great model.

Speaker 3: I think we should collaborate and share much more in general, and we might come into that more. I. ~~Um,~~ we started a small company and, ~~um,~~ what we are looking to do, and I think gradually over time, more and more we, we maybe start a little bit with thinking we can be, again, data management, consulting company, ~~uh,~~ grow that a bit and so on, but we have gradually more well gone into seeing ourselves as a strategic enablement company.

Speaker 3: We. ~~Uh,~~ help the clients if, like, ~~uh,~~ help themselves and make ourselves unnecessary. I think there\'s plenty of work out there. There\'s plenty of value and knowledge to add, but we don\'t want to or need to be. I don\'t know if it yours, I, mine died. I\'m all good. Sounded good from my side. Just keep going.

Speaker 3: That\'s fine. My screen just died and we, ~~uh,~~ yeah, ~~uh,~~ completely and then til it back. Okay, cool. ~~Um,~~ well, a. Reset point then. Yeah. ~~Um,~~

Speaker 3: so I guess we started out with saying we, we will grow this as a consultant business and be a couple of people, ~~um,~~ make some money that way and so on. But we have stayed small and gradually pivoted more and more into being in an enablement company.

Speaker 3: So we\'re trying to help the clients out, help the clients help themselves, ~~uh,~~ making ourselves unnecessary. ~~Um.~~ We think there is plenty of work, ~~uh,~~ anyhow, ~~uh,~~ and, and, ~~um,~~ we have, again, by that stayed small. We are not into this to, ~~um, um,~~ grow big to show something. ~~Um,~~ we wanna add value, ~~um,~~ provide something useful and, ~~uh,~~ use this as a, another type of component in our lives.

Speaker 3: Again, of course, we, we need to do some work and we, ~~um,~~ wanna make some, some, some useful out of that time.

Speaker:It\'s a, it\'s a great model actually. And you know, as a, as a similarly minded consultant myself, it\'s very rare that you hear people say you wanna make yourself redundant, but effectively, that\'s what you\'re doing.

Speaker:You\'re giving people tools. You are laying out a platform, you\'re showing them how to do things, and then handing it back to them better than you found it.

Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. That that\'s where we, we wanna play. We wanna be very humble in that sense. Make sure we provide value for the client, including saying no to some task when we\'re saying, Hey, that\'s not the path to go.

Speaker 3: We could do that for you right then. We could spend that money, or you could spend that money, but we\'d strongly advise you go in this way. ~~Um. We do so, so, so, yeah. Um,~~ it might seem like contradictory. ~~Uh,~~ but again, ~~um, to, to,~~ to me that\'s a more interesting model. It\'s a more, ~~uh, what,~~ what do you call that?

Speaker 3: It\'s a more value in that work. It\'s more satisfying. Satisfying to do that kind of job than work as say, to leave it at a, in a better place ~~than,~~ than you came in.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker:~~Yeah. It, it\'s a.~~ It\'s a really fascinating approach and I\'m sure it resonates really well with many companies because certainly from from many experiences that I\'ve had.

Speaker:Oftentimes when you are working with organizations and you\'ve had those senior roles, people can be threatened by your capabilities or perhaps previous titles and, and it sounds like a similar sort of thing that. Conversations that I have around with hiring managers and various other people, which is you don\'t want their job, you don\'t want their job title, and you certainly don\'t want the hours that they\'re working and the responsibilities that that entails.

Speaker:You just want to come in and do great work.

Speaker 3: ~~Yeah. No,~~ absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it\'s about being, again, it goes back to being very open ~~and, and, and,~~ and trustworthy ~~and,~~ and transparent from the beginning. ~~Um,~~ with that, and, ~~and again,~~ for us so far for what we need and what we are looking to do, that has worked out fine.

Speaker 3: Right? Again, we are not a huge company, ~~uh,~~ but we have enough work to do. We have, maybe you could say there\'s more work to do than we can deliver on. So basically we\'re sold out on the shelves and that\'s also why we\'re looking to now putting a lot of this and actually just releasing, ~~um,~~ probably by the time ~~you are,~~ you are releasing this podcast, ~~right.~~

Speaker 3: Have have released a first version. The self-service knowledge based platform. So a concept for taking this knowledge that we have accumulated and not only provided by billable hours, ~~right,~~ but make it more publicly available, make it more on demand available for more people. Again, it\'s about bringing the knowledge, bringing people the tools and the frameworks and understanding the need ~~to,~~ to help themselves.

Speaker 3: ~~Uh,~~ so that\'s. A way to try to see if we can scale this in that sense. ~~Um,~~ again, to bring that out there. And, ~~um,~~ and I think also you\'re fully right about this being if like a threat, ~~uh,~~ can definitely be, it. It it is a bit of a, ~~um,~~ yeah, it\'s a challenging space in that to, of course it\'s challenging as an advisory consultant sometimes to come in.

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ so of course it\'s about, very much about building trust. ~~Um,~~ not that. And, and I think that\'s also clear in our, ~~um.~~ Company values and, and, and our approach to things is that it\'s real important for us to say we are not like, there\'s no prestige in what we should be doing. It\'s what helps the client.

Speaker 3: Right. So I\'m, I\'m again, as you in the direction, you said season consultants. Yeah. I\'m doing level one user support. I\'m writing an SOP. And then the next meeting is about strategic advice for a new division, right? ~~Uh,~~ it\'s all over the place, but it is again, what what\'s needed today and what we really try to do, and that\'s in the company name, is be that chameleon, right?

Speaker 3: What do you need today? How do we combine? What we have in a company, company name Tricon, is three tiers, the three tiers of what we call strategical leadership. So understanding the situation, what do you need and how do I need to act in this situation? Am I, you know, leading, pointing the way? Am I to do it for you?

Speaker 3: How can I help you make you look good, basically. So understanding that situation between big pharma, small startup, that space combined with product management to a proper level. We need to deliver. We need to follow budgets and timelines. We need to add up next, but then also the subject matter expertise.

Speaker 3: We need to know the stuff. We try to combine that in single persons in us and say, okay, cool. We, we will by that, be hopefully very efficient in helping you. So that\'s very much our starting point. And then again, humbleness comes very much into that as well, because again, okay, cool. Now I need to do this, then that\'s what I\'m doing.

Speaker:what else it it, do you think, do you think it\'s fair to say that that\'s a, a particular Scandinavian culture? Because I saw it firsthand when I, when I worked in and lived in, in the Nordics particularly that that humility that you come to. In all of your engagements, both personally and professionally, because it, it\'s something that really aligned closely with my values when I was there.

Speaker:I felt very comfortable being around people like yourself in the way that you describe it. I\'m just, I\'m just curious, have you seen that translate into other geographies? Because I know that in, in certain geographies that can really, that can really, ~~uh,~~ grate with people, but it, it certainly doesn\'t for me, but

Speaker 3: does it always work?

Speaker 3: ~~Um.~~ Probably not. Probably not, right? I mean, because, but, but, but then it is back to the starting point, right? If you are in a different culture, different geography, different type of company, right? Different ownership situations, worlds create different cultures. So it\'s back to, back to the start again, right?

Speaker 3: Yeah. Come in there to become love, to understand how do I need to act and behave in this? What, what, what, what\'s the rules of engagements here, right? How does this run? ~~Uh,~~ so by that, with that humbleness, but combining with that sometimes. Of course a client want to consultant to be more, what should I call it?

Speaker 3: ~~Uh,~~ more pointing direction, sharp rail elbows, right? ~~Um,~~ taking the battle for them, what have you. Okay, cool. Then that\'s what we play, right? ~~Uh,~~ but all with honesty and transparency. ~~Um, so.~~ There are differences. I, I\'m not sure if I would call it the culture thing, because I do believe, I definitely see the other aspect here in, in Scandinavia as well, ~~uh,~~ which is our, not our only, but our core area of business, of course, right?

Speaker 3: I, I see the other, ~~uh,~~ the, the alternatives. But I do honestly in the same way as you, right? I mean, over the last year I\'ve been working extensively through some good contacts on building a greater and greater network, meaning I\'m talking to people from more or less all, all over the world. ~~Uh,~~ and I, I, I, I must say that I find this, you know, resonating in a lot, a lot of places and people like you saying, oh, that\'s so revealing to hear.

Speaker 3: Right. But that\'s also where I\'m at. We see so much of the other stuff, right? And we see not least, I mean, one thing is the client, but I. Honestly, some, some, some really, you know, some consultant colleagues that end up in really difficult situations because they\'re pushed into, into a situation that I cannot solve or expect to do something else or whatever.

Speaker 3: It\'s right. And it\'s like, it\'s, it\'s honestly, in lack of better words, it\'s sad to see. ~~Um,~~ and I think that\'s also at the core of what we try to do and. What you say, what gets me outta bed in the morning worse, workwise is like, I think, I think we can do, we can do better. I think I, I, I think I see many people that are not having a good day at, at, at, at job, right?

Speaker 3: At that job who are struggling on some stuff. That\'s also where I hope that some of this, like knowledge and how to deal with things. There is a. Concepts, principles, frameworks, right? How do we deal with this new challenge, the new, oh, now we\'ve grown to this size, so now we acquire this company, or now we need to do oversight.

Speaker 3: There\'s a new regulatory requirement. How do we deal with that? People are actually honestly challenged with that and, and, okay, can we help a little bit? Can we just add some value somewhere and, and make it easier and better? ~~Uh,~~ instead of everyone fighting their own battle? I think that\'s. That to me is, is, is, is a val in work.

Speaker:your, your consultant mindset is absolutely crystal clear in the way that you describe that because you are always, by the sounds of it, looking for solutions, looking for options, and making people\'s lives easier. And often, as you say, when, when you\'re dealing with people in large organizations, they\'re taken forward with the.

Speaker:With the baggage and, and the heaviness of the title, the role, the responsibility, all of those, all of those expectations that sit around them. And do you often find looking in from the outside, there\'s just a whole different mindset.

Speaker 3: ~~Um.~~ Yeah. Yes, I do. ~~Um,~~ I\'m not sure if you said often, I think that aspect is, is there, and again, it is a cultural aspect and you, and you need to, ~~um,~~ respect that because I mean the, the, the, ~~um,~~ things work differently in different countries, right?

Speaker 3: And, and, ~~um,~~ or different regions, cultures within countries as well, of course, right. All of that. So I, I definitely see that, ~~um,~~ a lot. I, I, I see, ~~um. Uh,~~ that, that what you would call that part as a driver and, and, and related to it. I think another one, ~~um,~~ to me that\'s his like close cousin to, if you like, is, is, ~~um,~~ insecurity.

Speaker 3: Because that\'s also will sweep that away. The need to hold on, the need to hold on to again, your, your, your title. The baggage, the big thing, the thing that cannot be, ~~um,~~ criticized. Right. ~~Um,~~ which is a scary thing in, I think in our business. Right. ~~Uh,~~ being wrong. ~~Uh,~~ being accused of being wrong or be seen as being wrong is, is extremely, I think, scary for, for, for a lot of people.

Speaker 3: And that will push you to the, to the safe bets. To the big bets, to the, you know, what everyone else will do. What? You can\'t be cri, cri criticized for. ~~Uh, so, so, so,~~ yeah. ~~Uh,~~ but I\'m not generally I see those as maybe a little bit of a ba, different balances, but, but, but everywhere. So I don\'t see, I don\'t think.

Speaker 3: I think it\'s also such a globalized business. So the, ~~uh,~~ which regional part of the culture is, is, ~~um,~~ is, might be kind of strong, but it\'s not the only thing. Right. So we are so mixed up. Right? So again, I\'m working with, if I\'m working with, with, with, with, ~~uh,~~ Danish clients, right. ~~Um,~~ yeah, maybe half of \'em were Danish, but then they got a.

Speaker 3: Big office in the US and they got a lot of people from Southern Europe or whatever it is, right? So this mixing bowl. So, so I, I definitely in most places see kind of this sometimes conflicting mix. Yes.

Speaker:Yeah. I mean, it, it\'s a great point you make and, and really, I. People remember what you do, but not just what you do.

Speaker:It\'s how you do it, isn\'t it? People remember how you made them feel when you worked with them, and per personally. I, I take that, I take that really deeply away and try and try and build on those conversations and those connections more than ever.

Speaker:How do you go about winning new work? It sounds like from what you\'re describing, that there is plenty of work out there.

Speaker:Don\'t say that.

Speaker 3: No, I mean, that has been partly, partly challenging in, in, in, in a way over the time. Right. ~~I mean,~~ the COVID period was, was hard. ~~Um,~~ I would say for us, I\'ve been, I\'ve been lucky to have some, what you call it, large, larger accounts throughout my consulting period. ~~Um, uh,~~ but I had, but, but yeah, we were, we had, ~~um,~~ have had one, two employees over time.

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ one of them we, we lost during COVID because, ~~um,~~ that consultant was. Like doing in-house work was not on the market When COVID hit and everything stopped and we couldn\'t get her back out and, ~~uh,~~ we, we, we, ~~uh,~~ basically had, yeah, we, we paid ourselves as long as we could and then we had to let her go and say, so we, we just can\'t hold for this financially anymore.

Speaker 3: So there\'s been times and ups and downs and I, I, I would say no. It\'s, it\'s challenging. I\'m lucky with having some, ~~uh,~~ some bigger accounts, some, some, ~~uh,~~ returning. Customers, which is great. Again, to your point, how do people, how do you make people feel, ~~um, uh,~~ when, when, when, when they work with you, ~~uh,~~ you work with them?

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ so, ~~uh,~~ I wouldn\'t say that it, that, that it easy, but it\'s been, if you like, ~~uh,~~ it is been, it is been enough. ~~Um,~~ and, and I think it goes back then a little bit to, to, to me, that like, that our approach holds if like enough. For, for, for what we\'re looking to achieve, right? Again, I\'m only, you know, my, my colleague Magnus is one person.

Speaker 3: I\'m one person. ~~Uh,~~ it\'s only so much we can do. So we\'d rather deal with, with like bigger impact where, where we\'re at, ~~um,~~ than try to again, get a lot of work or, or split this out, right. ~~Um.~~ But, but, but yeah. It might sound like it\'s easy if not, but at least it\'s a bit like kept us going. And again, the recurrent, ~~uh,~~ people coming back to you, ~~uh,~~ every now and then, of course there\'s a great sign of, of something that works.

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ for sure.

Speaker:You talked earlier around the knowledge based platform that you\'re developing and, and that you\'re hoping to share more broadly. Is that going to be. Free to anyone to use because I seem to recall that having done some background investigation into what Tricom was doing, you\'ve done that with SOPs and you\'ve done it in various other free.

Speaker:Free platforms. Yeah. Is that, is that, yeah. Where did, where did that come from and what\'s the rationale behind that? I\'m curious.

Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think the rationale is, of course, we need to make a living as, as, as everyone else, right? ~~Um,~~ so, so, so of course there need to be some kind of, you know, ~~um,~~ income flow somewhere somehow as well.

Speaker 3: But no, I, I, so generally we believe a lot in, in partnership and collaborations. ~~Um,~~ we believe in knowledge sharing. ~~Um.~~ Again, the enablement point, those links to, I think like pharma, like very high level, should compete on developing good products, not about, oh, I figured out how to do oversight in a good way.

Speaker 3: I don\'t wanna share that with you guys, right? ~~Uh,~~ that\'s, honestly, that\'s stupid. ~~Um,~~ so, ~~uh,~~ we, we are, ~~uh,~~ we are, as you see it, also knowledge sharing company. So yes, we put our, for example, our, ~~um,~~ SOPs as you know, the very basic ones that we feel we need to have as a, ~~uh,~~ consultant. Two person consultant company.

Speaker 3: We put them out our on, on our website. ~~Um,~~ they\'re free for everyone. If you wanna start a consultant. You know, feel free to grab them and adapt. If you want to word, word version, write us an email. We\'ll send you the word version and you can edit in way you want, right? ~~Um,~~ we do that and we share some other resources, some toolkits, some, some frameworks and stuff like that.

Speaker 3: So, ~~um,~~ and we, we are aiming to continue to do so. We are now, again, this is said, just releasing this more on demand, ~~uh,~~ wider, deeper knowledge platform, starting and around data management basics you could say, and looking to grow that in different directions. ~~Um,~~ so that will be a combination of paid services and, and, and free material.

Speaker 3: Like right for diff different models. Go in and buy a course if you need data management, A, B, C, ~~uh,~~ subscribe, ~~uh,~~ if you want more continuous services and resources. But part of what is also is shared is shared for free. So it would be combined, ~~um,~~ packaging if you like. And then I think the other key thing, ~~um,~~ is to say what we\'re looking to do.

Speaker 3: Generally going back to who we are, right, is on this, we believe going back to the first principles, the key concepts, and linking that to very practical operational framework, that\'s what we need. We\'re partly losing sight of what we\'re doing and why. So these first principles, the basic understanding is lost for quick fixes.

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ I think that\'s like the insights and knowledge that, that we are looking to share and, and, and make available to people in different ways. ~~Um,~~ and then we\'re also looking to make it available, ~~uh,~~ in different format. Some people wanna watch, some people wanna read, ~~um,~~ take a course, ~~uh,~~ get the certificate or listen 15 minutes a day.

Speaker 3: Whatever your thing is, what works for you. I think that\'s also a, a way to try to. Get more out there and, and, and, and make more available and, and bring value to people is finding ways to say, okay, what way works for you? Right. And package this up in different ways.

Speaker:Yeah, I think, I think content is king these days, isn\'t it?

Speaker:It\'s not, it\'s not necessarily just one size fits all anymore.

Speaker:Is it, as you say, there\'s video, there\'s audio, there\'s online learning platforms. ~~Um,~~ do you have a preference? Is there anything that you think is gonna gain you the greatest traction?

Speaker 3: ~~Um.~~ No, I think that just, ~~uh,~~ actually the combination, right?

Speaker 3: The way I envision this is, is, is, is again, ~~uh,~~ enabling users to go in there and find the things they need when they need it.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 3: ~~Uh,~~ whatever form that is, that works for them. So I think, and you can mix and match them, right? So, ~~um.~~ I, I, no, I, I don\'t think so.

Speaker 3: I, I do believe on the other hand, when you say content is king, ~~uh,~~ of course there\'s nothing new here.

Speaker 3: This is not revolutionized. I think of course, that has changed dramatically over the last 10 years where, where access to knowledge before was like the thing and then came, ~~um,~~ internet about and other things, and now we into the whole, you know, GBT world, right? And I think what we are looking to do here is just, is more structured this right, pull down as something that is vetted and somewhat qualified.

Speaker 3: Yeah, because you can find anything. And again, this is not new, we\'re revolutionizing, but it is hopefully accessible, ~~uh,~~ again, structured because instead of overwhelming, ~~uh, and, and, and, and, and, and, uh,~~ scattered it,

Speaker:it\'s a really good point you make there actually information. Being everywhere is not always the ideal, is it?

Speaker:Because particularly if it\'s not validated, if it\'s not from a trusted source. It can be anything to anyone.

Speaker:And, you know, new people coming into our industry, into life sciences, clinical research, drug development will be finding themselves overwhelmed, I\'m sure. And I only have to think about, you know, young people sitting exams these days.

Speaker:The, the, the overwhelm around that information. Where do you focus your attention? How do you focus your attention? If you can even focus your attention these days, you know, to keep someone\'s attention for. A microsecond seems to be the biggest challenge these days. Doesn\'t it?

Speaker 3: It, it, it, it is, it is. And I, I think that\'s definitely, that\'s definitely the biggest challenge here as well.

Speaker 3: Right? When you say, if I believe I have a preferred, what will get the more traction, like format and methodology? ~~Um,~~ again, problem mix. What is the biggest challenge?

Speaker 3: Mm. Attention as to say, right? Because some of this. Is honestly a bit heavy, right? It\'s massive to some extent, right? Some it is to, to get into this, and we talked about it.

Speaker 3: Data management is most parts of the world, and many of us have different types of backgrounds, right? So again, this, so you, you come in here with different backgrounds and you\'re starting a little bit, maybe not from scratch. We have some components, but anyhow, right? And you need to get into this. Big world of clinical development and clinical data and systems and, and what have you, right?

Speaker 3: And, ~~um,~~ hopefully we have structured and packages in a way that helps, but still it is quite dense, if you like, right? There\'s a lot of information in a way, there\'s a lot of platform there or background basis that you need to have. So that\'s the challenge, but that\'s also why I hope that. Enabling this by what you can call it.

Speaker 3: Not only like read it from from a to set or watch it from a to set, right, but more on demand is say, okay, cool, I can get this overview. Then that gives me the foundation. From there I can dig down and pick the pieces I need for now, and I can come back to the other ones later on. So that\'s also, I guess, one way to try to cut this up in a way to limit that, because yeah, it\'s challenging just looking at your calendar.

Speaker 3: Most people have, okay, let me spend three hours getting through this properly. Maybe not, right? You have half an hour there and an hour there. So can we, can we help them in that situation as well? And hopefully this will will be one way.

Speaker:Yeah. ~~Um,~~

Speaker:I\'m reminded of. Some of the learning skills that I learned around learning and there being three learning styles, the visual audio, and the kinesthetic.

Speaker:And I\'m sure you know these things, but my wife always reminds me of these things as a teacher, you know, you need to, you need to hit the classroom with, with every level of that, don\'t you? And so I think the, you know, the multimedia approach is, is perfect also, I think, you know how you package that and pass it on to people.

Speaker:And perhaps, you know, there can be in-person elements to that as well, because certainly I know, I know what it feels like to work from home remotely a lot. When you have the opportunity to be in an actual room with human beings, the energy is entirely different, isn\'t it? Yeah. So an onsite. Offsite meeting perhaps is also a really great way to get energy together and to learn together and really embed that knowledge.

Speaker 3: No, I, I agree. Absolutely. Right. So, so what we\'re looking to do here is the, what we call the first foundational modules being released here. ~~Um,~~ over the summer, ~~um,~~ people will be, again, it\'s summertime, right? So people will be a little bit all over. ~~Um,~~ but then from there, start, ~~um,~~ extending on this with, with live q and a and webinars as well, ~~um,~~ include, so getting like some in that in-person touch as well.

Speaker 3: ~~Um.~~ This is honestly based also when you back to classroom training. Right. And I agree with you. I mean, webinar is what it is as well, right? It\'s better than, than, than, than than one directional, ~~uh,~~ from that perspective. But, but this is also something that actually is based on what we ran before, ~~uh,~~ which was classroom training.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So of course this is like an extension of that, but, but to me that is, ~~uh,~~ so that\'s still like. Definitely an available service. Right. And I do believe that, again, it definitely has great advantages to it, right? Especially if you bring in people, you know, you can do that on a company, you know, so we can go out to companies and run some of these modules or mix and match in the way you need.

Speaker 3: ~~Um, uh,~~ but I\'ve also run with, with people from different companies, right. ~~Uh,~~ and that of course brings to, brings a totally different depth and life to things like the exercises and things like that. For sure.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 3: We, we, we, again, we do offer that. Absolutely. ~~Uh,~~

Speaker 3: just that to me, after COVID, at at least like reasonably local, right?

Speaker 3: ~~Uh,~~ both traveling has gone out the window, ~~uh,~~ spending two days, ~~uh,~~ on the training calls, right? Is ~~uh.~~ I dunno. Again, anyone contact me, let me know. We are happy, really happy to do it. ~~Uh,~~ but we haven\'t had, basically we haven\'t sold it. Right? There has not been people buying it, ~~um,~~ after COVID. Yeah. But, but I love it and I love the engagement than the interaction.

Speaker 3: Right. But, ~~uh,~~ but yeah,

Speaker:it, it feels much more of a heavy lift for people to travel these days and certainly, ~~um,~~ I, I met with some colleagues recently. ~~Uh,~~ from said pharma company in Copenhagen that they were not allowed to fly down to Prague. They had to spend two days there and back on a train. And I think they had a lovely time on the train and it slowed their lives down for a couple of days, but that\'s pretty unique these days, you know?

Speaker:~~Um,~~ so for them to be traveling, that was a big deal. For anyone else who traveled there, you know, the, I would say probably 95% of the, of the people that attended would\'ve would\'ve flown there. But case in point, you know, I, I\'ve not flown a fraction of what I was doing pre pandemic, and, and that\'s personal choice on the one hand, but it\'s also availability of information and people and how we, how we are working differently, isn\'t it?

Speaker:You know, I mean, the pandemic clearly impacted a lot of things, if only. It proves that people could work very productively in their own environments if they\'re trusted to do good work and behave like adults and not be treated like children.

Speaker 3: Yeah, no, yeah, no, I agree very much that I think ~~like~~ the pandemic tilted it or made it jump, ~~right.~~

Speaker 3: I mean, we were kind of going in that direction and, and I also do see if we. ~~You know,~~ going into that topic. ~~Right.~~ I do see now that the dependence spring a little bit back. So we need a certain level ~~of,~~ of interaction. ~~Right.~~ And as anything from, ~~from like, you know,~~ having the camera on ~~when, when,~~ when you\'re having meetings to spending a certain amount of time in the office to having enough face-to-face meeting, in person meeting as you say them, ~~um,~~ across offices and so on as well.

Speaker 3: ~~Right?~~ So of course we need to find a new balance. Typically, something goes that far as it did, ~~right?~~ It. Then swing a little bit back, ~~uh,~~ to find a new balancing point. ~~Right. So, so, so, yeah. Uh,~~ but it changed a lot of things.

Speaker:You touched on, on chat, GPT and, and other AI tools. Are there any that you trust at the moment that, ~~uh,~~ that you are embracing yourself?

Speaker:How do you feel about that as, as an enabler?

Speaker 3: Yeah, of course it\'s coming. ~~Right.~~ And I think it\'s coming, ~~um,~~ in different ways, in different parts of the indu industry. I think we will have a quite, yeah, we will have a, I wouldn\'t call it slow ~~right? But,~~ but pharma is ~~right.~~ I mean, it is what it is ~~say, say,~~ will not, ~~you know,~~ we can\'t just fully jump onto it.

Speaker 3: But definitely it\'s, it is in my everyday life just on this knowledge platform. ~~Right.~~ More as a validation sort of ~~like, so.~~ We\'re putting something together, ~~um, and, um,~~ using GPTs ~~for,~~ for example, ~~you know,~~ suggest a summary, ~~right? Um,~~ and also some other interesting things ~~like,~~ okay, suggest some recap questions with answers on this text, ~~right?~~

Speaker 3: And, and that is really good validation of my own work because suddenly say, okay, cool, that, did it think that was a question? And that was the answer to that question, ~~right?~~ Something is. That, ~~that\'s so~~ something is wrong with what I put in. ~~Right? In a way. Right.~~ Or not optimal. ~~Right.~~ It\'s misunderstanding it.

Speaker 3: So, ~~um,~~ that has been one like different angle to the use case rather than of course, having it do the work. ~~Um,~~ I\'m, I\'m not fully there yet, personally, but, but definitely it, it is, it is a very helpful tool for some of this. ~~Like,~~ again, processing, editing, ~~um.~~ We are playing with putting this, what we\'re doing in this framework.

Speaker 3: I said Right. Spending time on putting it into, again, both text and pictures as you said. Right. And videos. We hit this different, different, ~~um,~~ learning styles and, and, and the different packaging that can benefit people. ~~Um,~~ so we\'re also looking and playing with, putting that into a chat bot based on then our content.

Speaker 3: Right. For example. Can that be again, yet another way of. That will work for some, in some situations to get help with what they need to get help on. Right? Again, this on demand. I need to understand this piece now in my situation. ~~Um,~~ so that, that I would say is, is, is, is one.

Speaker 2: As

Speaker 3: well. So we, we are using it and I definitely, I mean, it has great value in, in, ~~uh,~~ in those circumstances, ~~um,~~ and in those roles.

Speaker 3: So yeah, we, we, ~~um,~~ I, I use, use some of those as, but I\'m not, I, I\'m not a, ~~um,~~ frontier, ~~uh,~~ that will not think, I don\'t believe that. ~~Um,~~ it will do all the data management work and programming, ~~uh,~~ in a year or so. ~~Um,~~ that will take some time, but, but of course, definitely helpful, ~~um,~~ for the, for the right stuff for sure.

Speaker:I, I agree with that. And having, having recently spoken to a number of people about this, we came back to the same principle, which is. There may be less humans in the loop, but there will always be humans in the loop.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I don\'t

Speaker:think we\'re gonna be redundant. I hope we\'re not gonna be redundant, he said, crossing his fingers.

Speaker:But, but what I, what I anticipate is that, you know, in, in your example as a consultant and, and similar to me, you can validate your own thoughts and crosscheck those as use cases.

Speaker:You talked also about the chat bot, and that comes under the umbrella of ai, right? So.

Speaker:A help agent that can give you answers back or perhaps rephrase that into a more human, a human approach to questioning, isn\'t it? Is. Is

Speaker 3: that your intention behind that? That that\'s the intention, right? It\'s the intention to, again, to to, to try to take this, ~~uh,~~ again, call it knowledge, to call it one in one content, right?

Speaker 3: And, and, and again, package it up and, and, and make it available through different channels. Right? Because again, ~~um,~~ what I\'m wishing with that one is saying if it\'s pretty straightforward to do right, to have it answered like the questions based on the material you.

Speaker 3: So another way of interrogating this, this framework of information, because again, it can be big and overwhelming. And if this is this what you need right now. Okay, cool. How can we get that? So, ~~um.~~ And, and again, questions also, dialogue based is, is another style to convey information or understanding, as said.

Speaker 3: So we\'ve got both learnings, but we also, again, in in bigger context, learning is somewhat transactional. Like how do we get this knowledge and understanding across to you through the different learning styles, right? But a conversation based interaction. Is also sometimes an efficient way of, again, gaining that knowledge back to the other person or giving them what they need at the moment, right.

Speaker 3: So yeah.

Speaker:Yeah. Embedding it, embedding it into the deep memory. I think that\'s key, isn\'t it? Mm-hmm. You know, it\'s, it\'s learning through doing. It\'s certainly, ~~um,~~ repetition, which is the basis of learning as again. It sounds like you\'ve, you, you\'ve thought that whole thing through really, really nicely. Is there anything we haven\'t talked about today that, that you wanted to talk about that I haven\'t asked you about, perhaps and, and that maybe our audience would value in hearing from you?

Speaker 3: ~~Uh.~~ No, I, I, I dunno. I mean, it\'s, it\'s more than related to the platform, as I said. Right. You know, ~~um,~~ to, to that we\'re looking forward to that and, and, and, and, and see if that can, can, can fly. So that, that\'s more, more an offer. Right. ~~Um,~~ be what, what we\'re doing is, ~~uh,~~ first of all, I can. If, if you can cut that out, if we, if, if we\'re not allowed to do that.

Speaker 3: Right. ~~Um, but um,~~ I\'m, I\'m, I\'m sure that Adam can put the, the link in the show notes. ~~Um,~~ it\'s, ~~um,~~ I\'ll, I\'ll do

Speaker:the call to action. I\'ll do the call to action just, just so that that\'s clear so we can do that. But I wanted to, to just give you the opportunity if there was anything else that we haven\'t covered, if there was any particular things.

Speaker:But we\'ll give you that, that elevator picture at the end as well.

Speaker 3: Yeah. You also will have those quick questions, right? Of, yeah, exactly.

Speaker:That\'s what\'s just coming. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah. ~~Uh, oh.~~ Let, lemme see what I had on here. If there anything.

Speaker 3: No, no, no. I think I\'m good. I\'m good around. Yeah.

Speaker:Perfect.

Speaker:Well just rounding it up. ANDAs, it\'s been an absolutely delightful conversation. Thank you for sharing so much around the background of Tricon, your own principles and values, and I think it\'s a really nice way to segue into what we call the quick fire round.

Speaker:So I\'ll just give you some very quick questions and ~~uh,~~ shorter answers perhaps. So what is, what is the one piece of advice you would give to your younger self?

Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. ~~Um,~~ the younger self, right. Long time ago. ~~Um, I, I, I, I~~ think, ~~uh,~~ oh, sorry. Let me let check that I you to do that again, right, Lisa? ~~Um,~~ where did I have that one?

Speaker:Okay, cool. Do it again.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker:So quick fire round. We\'d like to finish with a couple of questions and put you on the spot. So Alice, what\'s the one piece of advice you would give to your younger self?

Speaker 3: Alright, ~~um,~~ cool. What you say? ~~Um.~~ Then, yeah, two things maybe, right? ~~Um,~~ invest in yourself. It\'s worth it, right?

Speaker 3: Be the best you can be. ~~Um, uh,~~ think about that. Think about yourself. Give that some thought. Spend some time with, with yourself, ~~um,~~ on yourself, ~~uh,~~ and invest in that. ~~Um,~~ that would probably the first one I wished in a way, or my advice would be start doing that maybe a little bit earlier than I did, which is not too many years ago, and I\'m 53 today, right?

Speaker 3: So that\'s probably one. ~~Um,~~ the other one, don\'t be impressed. That much. Don\'t, don\'t get stuck in the matrix, right? ~~Um,~~ follow what\'s interesting for you. Follow your heart, right? And, and again, you will do good in the world, right? ~~Uh,~~ again, don\'t be so impressed by it, and don\'t expect that everyone knows more and better than you do.

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ be humble. ~~Uh,~~ but again, don\'t, don\'t, don\'t, ~~um,~~ don\'t be impressed.

Speaker:I like that. And I think you are humble. You certainly come across as being a, a humble guy and, ~~uh,~~ that that comes across in many of the answers that you\'ve provided. So you\'ve hit that one. Definitely. Thank you. ~~Um,~~

Speaker:what are the three top qualities you value most when building a team?

Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Building team, collaborating, ~~uh,~~ in different ways. Yeah. ~~Um,~~ so. No, I think both. Both in, both in like in work, work as we talked about today, right? Or in other, you know, in other situations. ~~Um,~~ and I have like three H things I\'m looking at, right? So, so the, the, the, the, the letter H, which is like, again, coming back to what we talked about four, right?

Speaker 3: What brings your heart on fire? So the heart, what, what? What makes you tick? Where, when do your eyes turn it on? Right? What, what are you engaged in? And of course this is about like building a team, right? Are you engaged in this? Are you, you know, do you wanna do this? Do you wanna be here? ~~Uh,~~ what\'s important for you?

Speaker 3: Right? And we, we also use that for when we talk about subcontracting collaborating, right? That\'s really key for me to find out who\'s that other person, what\'s important for you. Flexibility, the content of the work, your situation, right? Earn a lot of money, whatever it is. Right? What\'s important for you? I think that\'s one.

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ the other one that is, that is key for what we do and how I, I need to operate the one, operate with what we do is like, is holistic view and understanding, again, come back to first principles, understanding. So that holistic approach, ~~um,~~ is, is is one, ~~um,~~ definitely. That leads to like, again, first principles, concepts, rational thinking and objectivity, which is also back to honesty.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 3: ~~Uh,~~ and the fun one is, is again, coming back to the, to the humbleness, right? Being humble and curious. Right. ~~Um.~~ That is, ~~uh,~~ that is the third H you like. I, I really, really like

Speaker:that, and I think that will really resonate with our, our audience actually. Thank you for sharing those three, three hs. I\'ll, I\'ll try and put a link to that in the show notes afterwards as well.

Speaker:Yeah, yeah. Please do. Please do. Yeah.

Speaker:Outside of work, what, what do you enjoy doing? What\'s your favorite activity?

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ yeah, I mean, family is, ~~uh,~~ family is kind of number one in linking and I is, is is health and being capable, if you like. Right? So, so I really enjoy, keep trying to keep myself healthy. I do CrossFit, I\'m one of those, ~~uh,~~ for some of you have come, ever come across CrossFitter.

Speaker 3: ~~Um,~~ that\'s strange. Tribal people around the world. That\'s my thing. ~~Um,~~ that, that\'s my dope. So that\'s, that\'s like one piece to that. ~~Uh,~~ I love spending time in nature, ~~uh,~~ a lot. Right? So that is ~~like, uh,~~ maybe a, a second thing. ~~Uh,~~ of course them together with family, preferably, ~~uh,~~ and then doing things with my hands, right?

Speaker 3: ~~Um.~~ Most of my work is office, ~~uh,~~ typing. I don\'t count that as doing work with my hands, so, so, you know, ~~um,~~ we got a new, ~~uh,~~ garden shed delivered in pieces, ~~uh,~~ the other day. So that would be part of the next couple of weeks putting that together. I enjoy that building, construc doing something, ~~uh,~~ concrete that is like hard to you can take on.

Speaker 3: Right. Not only again, electronic if you like. Right. So yeah.

Speaker:So something analog to, to compliment the.

Speaker 3: Something analog, something again, ~~um,~~ hard, tangible, tangible, tangible,

Speaker:usable. That\'s wonderful. That\'s wonderful.

Speaker:And finally, what is your number one goal for life and business?

Speaker 3: Yeah. Goal for life and business, right?

Speaker 3: I think, ~~um,~~ goal for business is, I, I would say that. Success is success in, in life. Right? So therefore, I think business to me, you know, you can say goal, we can also principles, right? Which is family first when it comes to business. ~~Um,~~ I\'m that for the business, right? It, it is, ~~um,~~ honestly, of course to make a living, ~~um,~~ which like is where, where I\'m at at the moment, which is fine.

Speaker 3: ~~Uh,~~ but from that, to me it is, it is about doing something useful, right? Be of value. I. Work, and we talked a lot about that, I think, right? Can we bring this little piece piece out? Can I still Yeah. Make a decent limit, that\'s fine. But also providing some input, some knowledge, some help to make this thing work.

Speaker 3: ~~Uh,~~ solving the problem, right? So to me, ~~uh,~~ goal is not in ~~like,~~ okay, we wanna earn this much. You wanna make it this big, or we want our platform to be used. I will be fantastic because it would enable so much else. But the key thing is right, I\'m spending a certain amount of time doing, doing work, and if that is contributing, if that\'s, ~~you know,~~ value bringing, ~~uh,~~ and again, I can pay, pay, pay my bills, I.

Speaker 3: Cool. Then, then, then we\'re good. I, I have nothing to prove, ~~uh,~~ in that space. I don\'t need to. Right. Lifewise? ~~Uh,~~ definitely. I mean, it also, I\'m a guy trying to do good work, right. ~~Um,~~ be, be the guy that\'s there and, and, and make sure, ~~you know,~~ we are happy and healthy in, in, in my family and closest friends.

Speaker 3: Right? ~~Uh,~~ it\'s as simple as that. ~~Um,~~ don\'t need to go anywhere specific. Don\'t need to go elsewhere, right. It, it, it\'s, ~~um,~~ being good where we are.

Speaker:I think that\'s a really lovely way to, to conclude the conversation and is you\'ve shared so much today about your personal principles, but also you know your work principles and it sounds so closely as if they align both around your professional and personal life and family that comes into that.

Speaker:And, ~~um.~~ It reinforces to me why I think we got on when we first spoke because all of those things really resonate so loudly with me and I think will resonate with many of our audience, ~~um,~~ listeners and viewers. So I wanna say thank you so much for taking the time today and as giving us the background to Tricon and really.

Speaker:If I gave you one, one last call to action, how do, how do our audience make contact with you and, and, and, and do good work with you?

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. No, yeah. ~~Um,~~ tricon.com right, is a good starting point. TRI, ~~um,~~ TICO m.com. ~~Uh,~~ I\'ll sure you can put that in the show notes or, or somewhere, right? ~~Um,~~ or directly to knowledge word treat com.

Speaker 3: That\'s a knowledge based platform. ~~Um.~~ Contact, contact me on LinkedIn and contact us via email, ~~uh,~~ on the website as well is perfectly fine. ~~Uh,~~ so do reach out. ~~Um.~~ Do, right. ~~Uh,~~ do ask for input. ~~You know,~~ again, I talked about life, the way we run our company, ~~uh,~~ whatever it is, right? And of course, if you want, need some consultancy hours, right?

Speaker 3: Or, ~~you know,~~ want input on, on something professional as well, for sure. Reach out to us, ~~uh,~~ through that as well. ~~Uh,~~ should you wanna be one of our pioneers, ~~uh,~~ on the knowledge world platform, as we call it, do reach out as well, and we\'ll set you up for that and we\'ll trade free access for feedback. For, for the next couple of months here.

Speaker 3: So if so, do reach out to us. ~~Um,~~ and, and again, we\'ll get that arranged as well. Right. ~~Um,~~ I think these were, yeah, I guess the main ones. ~~Um,~~ but, but again, yeah, I, I, as you probably can tell, ~~uh,~~ love discussing these things and, and I\'m, I\'m happy to share, ~~um,~~ with others. For sure.

Speaker:Thank you so much for being a guest on Pharma Prescribed.

Speaker 2: all.