Keith Berelowitz — PRxEngage, 35k Users in Month 1 & Why Patients Need a North Star

Speaker:I\'m Adam Walker, a biometrics consultant, and this is the Pharma Prescribed Podcast where leaders, innovators, and hidden voices in healthcare open up, no sound bites, no spin, just raw insight, one prescription at a time. In an industry driven by data protocols and pressure, we rarely pause to ask the human questions.

Speaker:What drives us, what breaks us, and what truths live behind the titles we wear?

Speaker:Dr. Keith Reitz is the founder and CEO of PRX engage a platform designed to revolutionize how we engage and retain patients in clinical trials with over 20 years of experience in pharma and biotech research. Keith Blends proven methodologies and AI powered solutions to tackle one of the industry\'s most pertinent challenges, keeping patients at the heart of research.

Speaker:Before launching PRX, engage, Keith founded Patient Rx Limited, a consultancy founded on tech enabled trial optimization. He also served as operations and commercials director at Richmond Pharmacology. Where his leadership contributed to significant revenue growth and global recognition, his strategic acumen extends beyond business.

Speaker:He currently chairs the Fulham Research Ethics Committee and has advised groups like the cro Early Phase Working Group and the CCRA executive committee. What sets Keith apart isn\'t just his resume, it\'s his relentless focus on ethical, effective, and human centered research. His platform is built to support multi-stakeholder collaboration, to personalize engagement, and to improve retention across diverse populations.

Speaker:In an era where up to 30% of patients drop outta clinical trials, Keith\'s work is more than innovation, it\'s intervention. Keith, welcome to Pharma. Prescribed. How are. Good. And

Speaker 2: you? Well, I\'ll, I\'ll leave now. I think you\'ve said everything in, in fact, I\'m looking for a new pr, uh, team member, so, so I\'ve got the job.

Speaker:Thank you. So for those of our audience who, who aren\'t familiar with your work, Keith, and um mm-hmm. The work that you\'re doing with pr RX Engage, perhaps you could just give them a little bit of background to how you got into this industry, all those many years ago. Okay.

Speaker 2: So it started out. I was always gonna go into some kind of, uh, medical role, whether it be a doctor, and I always, I thought I was gonna be a doctor for a long time until I did, uh, a couple of, uh, weeks of work experience at a, a local hospital and went, yeah, this is not for me.

Speaker 2: Um, so I went down the science route and all of this was driven out of, uh, losing a friend at a really young age. Um. You know, it, it just didn\'t sit well with me that like people go, you know, leave this world and there\'s no, in my opinion, rhyme or reason for it. And so that stuck with me. So I went down the, the science route, became a a, a bench scientist, worked at, uh, the Royal Free, um.

Speaker 2: I thought I was gonna have a, uh, a career in academia and realize that even I didn\'t have an ego big enough for that. And, um. I found myself, uh, working in commercial clinical research at Richmond Pharmacology where, where you and I met, um, which seems like a million years ago now. I think. I think we were young men then.

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. We, we, we could actually breathe and, and walk without aids.

Speaker 2: Um, and, you know, over that time at, at uh, Richmond, I had a really great career, but there was always. I don\'t know, in the last several years, something now give me, we could do more. Um, and then a personal, uh, health or scare, let\'s put it, let\'s call it, that really highlighted to me that, you know, the way in which patients engage with research, the way in which patients find clinical studies, the awareness of clinical research was not what I thought it was.

Speaker 2: Um, and you know, after, uh, COVID where. Clinical trials really came to the fore with, with the vaccines. Um, I was somewhat taken aback at, at how poorly, um, clinical trials were understood. And then when looking for a trial for myself, uh, even I got confused and, and I consider myself relatively intelligent or per your introduction, super intelligent.

Speaker 2: Um, and you know, once I got my all clear on, on, uh, my, um. Dalliance with, with, uh, potential cancer. Um, I left Richmond to set up what is now P Rx Engage, which is that platform to help patients easily understand what clinical trials are, identify a trial that they. Can actually understand and then work out whether or not that that is a study that is, is suitable for, for them as, as a patient.

Speaker 2: And really all of this is grounded in the use of technology, um, AI and, uh, behavioral science and in particular, uh, self-determination theory. I give you a good summary.

Speaker:That\'s a lovely summary. There\'s so much I\'d like to unpick there.

Speaker:Keith, I mean, you talked about. Initially coming into the industry as a result of personal loss, and I\'m extremely sorry for your, your loss in your early age and subsequently your own diagnosis.

Speaker:It\'s interesting, isn\'t it, that we find ourselves doing the things that drive us based upon personal values and our own life and lived experiences, particularly when you get to a certain age, and I\'m sensing that. The decisions that you\'ve made have been pretty pivotal to how you see the rest of your life, hopefully planning out, panning out for you.

Speaker:Yeah, for me it is.

Speaker 2: We, we, we can\'t, uh, or we can just continue on on, on the path we\'re on. Um, and there\'s nothing wrong with that, but I just felt like that there was more to do and there were more people that I could potentially help. I mean, I, I went into, um, working on an ethics committee initially to, to broaden my, my knowledge and my understanding.

Speaker 2: But in those. Seven, eight or nine years now. Um, I\'m seeing so much more and seeing how research can, can impact people. And you, you know, that that decision to leave my previous position and, and, and the work that I was doing was probably the best decision I made because of the people I\'ve met along the way in the, in the journey since then.

Speaker 2: The number of people who are looking for that hope, who want, need that support. Don\'t know necessarily where to turn. There was something in my gut that that said to me, you know, one day that could be me. Um, or I could be in a position where, where, where I want help. So let me do what I can now to

Speaker:pay forward effectively.

Speaker:I mean, it\'s extremely noble and, and I think from, from the introduction as I spoke about your background, your background is perfectly suited to do this thing, right. It\'s clear to me in also knowing you both personally and professionally, that your skillset with regards to the academic background as much as what you\'ve done throughout your career, has driven you towards this purpose and outcome.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, co contrary to pop, uh, popular belief, I actually do like people. So, um, I like working with people. I like understanding people\'s stories. I like understanding people\'s whys. Um. One of the things that, that stuck with me in, in, in my, my previous role, was meeting with patients, understanding their stories, understanding why they put themselves forward for research, understanding their, their relationships with, with their families, what they were hoping to, to get out of this.

Speaker 2: And, you know, we all need a little bit of help along the way. Look, I\'m not a saint, but, um, if I can do something to make someone else life that little bit better. I, and that\'s why I say we are additive. We are not the silver bullet for anything. Um, but we, the intention is to help people even in a, in, in a little way, whether that\'s a biopharma company, uh, a patient, a community organization, or a research group.

Speaker 2: We all need a little bit of help, including me and you.

Speaker:That\'s for sure.

Speaker:So over the last few months, you\'ve posted lots of things on LinkedIn, around your own personal experiences, but also in launching this new company, PRX, engage, you\'re engaging with some very big hitting people in the industry. Yeah.

Speaker:Can you tell us a little bit more about some of the people you\'re engaging with, how you got, how you got involved with them, and, and, and where that trajectory is going?

Speaker 2: Look, I, I think if you, if you\'re not authentic, you\'ll get nowhere. Um, I genuinely care about what I write. I write everything myself. I don\'t have other people doing my writing for me, these are my thoughts, my words, my experiences.

Speaker 2: And you know, when I started doing this, um. I was worried it would come across as me being arrogant or, or, or knowing everything. But what\'s really been interesting, particularly with LinkedIn is, um, the responses that, uh, I\'ve got from people, um, and the feedback and the connections it\'s made, and those connections are not just to keep layering up, but it\'s, you know, you meet someone who suggests that you know this, you, you may wanna speak to this person as well.

Speaker 2: And so. As you move through, you start to meet a variety of people. I still think my, my favorite conversations are those with patients that, that reach out directly. Um, but I\'ve got a rule, um, now, which is if anyone asks for, uh, a meeting, I\'ll have the, I\'ll have that meeting. Um, because you never know what you\'re gonna learn from someone.

Speaker 2: It\'s, uh. It is time consuming at times, and there are times where I get frustrated and there\'s times where I\'m sitting in this chair like not moving for, for several hours, which is why I go and, and cycle. Um, but it\'s, you never know what you\'re gonna learn from someone and someone may just spark something in, in, in your mind and meeting, you know, it\'s not necessarily about meeting more senior people, it\'s about meeting people that actually can drive results and drive action.

Speaker 2: And in fact the majority of the people I\'ve met are not necessarily the most senior people in some of the organizations. It\'s the people doing the work on the ground.

Speaker:Yeah, I mean you make, you make a great point there. Some of the discomfort around posting about oneself and one\'s internal drive comes back to that kind of ego, isn\'t it?

Speaker:It\'s getting out of the way of your ego and yeah, reminding yourself why you do what you do as much as. Those serendipitous opportunities to meet with people like-minded souls. I know you\'ve introduced me to several of your colleagues and contacts who exactly, to your point, you just connect with on a very deep level almost immediately because you seem to be on a similar sort of trajectory, life path, I dunno what it is, but like seems to.

Speaker:Drive those opportunities for connection. Yep. And it doesn\'t tend to happen, in my experience, in those heavily bureaucrat bureaucratic organizations where there is a definition for a role and approach a meeting schedule. You know, this is how we work. We work in these boxes and this is how we will move forward.

Speaker:I\'m sensing that similar to myself. You follow the path of. Feels right.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And that\'s, that\'s the principles that, that we\'re, we\'re setting up now within P Rx Engage, we, we\'ve got a, a growing team. Um, and that team does need direction. They do need some, uh, some structure, but I don\'t wanna knock the innovation, the thought process, the, the, the wanting to explore out of the people that have come into the organization.

Speaker 2: \'cause they\'ve come in. Wanting to, to, to innovate, wanting to do things a bit differently. So you\'d have to have a degree of structure, but still give people that, uh, the, the roaming space. And, you know, if you think about it, um, in the, in, in the way we work, if you give people a defined space in which to roam, um.

Speaker 2: Then let, then let them add it in that space. Don\'t keep, uh, constricting the space and, and making it more difficult. Clearly you don\'t wanna do anything that is unethical or coercive or, um, where it, it misaligns with the values of, of, of the business, but it is important that you, you give people breathing space to, to, to think and innovate.

Speaker 2: And that\'s something I haven\'t always done in the past. So it is something I\'m now very conscious of and very focused on doing in the future.

Speaker:So I\'m a patient and I wanna find out about clinical trials. What does PRX engage look like for me? If I go to your website, what\'s my patient journey gonna look like if I wanna find out a particular clinical trial for a condition that I may have?

Speaker 2: Okay, so there\'s, there\'s a number of, uh, trial matching softwares, uh, out there. I mean, this is a really. Big market these days, uh, both from a financial perspective, but then also from a patient awareness perspective. It\'s definitely growing, but it is nowhere near its peak. Um, P Rx engage is, is set to, to make it simple, to identify trials that patients want to learn about, but do it in as low a friction way as possible so there\'s no logins.

Speaker 2: Um, it is, uh, a web-based, uh, platform. You go straight on, you can search for, you can type in, uh, the medical condition that you have. You provide a few, uh, other, um, pieces of information, uh, namely, uh, age, um, and uh, gender. Um, also your location location\'s extremely important because that helps match, uh, the, the, the trials to you.

Speaker 2: We do ask you to consent for, for this information. Whilst we have nothing identifiable at that point, you are still providing, um, personal health information. And that\'s something that, that\'s, people seem not to realize, you know, the, your IP address, the cookies, et cetera, that this all belongs to you. Once you get through that, you\'ll see the studies that match to that condition and or to, to your condition and fit within your age range.

Speaker 2: And the these studies are. Presented to you with the one closest to you being presented first. So we, we\'ve used the dating app analogy of swipe right, swipe left, and, and our very good engineering team are, are coming up with some fun ways to fun, fun ways to play with that. But ultimately we want to be, uh, make it simple for, for patients to see a number of trials, um, and then decide which trials they, they want to look into further.

Speaker 2: And I, I\'m often asked, well, why would you show so many trials? Or if we are working with you, we want only our study shown. In reality, we don\'t make decisions in isolation. Um, and if we do, it is extremely rare. And my argument back to those that say, we\'ll just show our trial is when was the last time you made a decision in isolation?

Speaker 2: And more so if a patient looks at several studies and then they pick yours, they are picking you. That means they\'re gonna be more committed to you. And this is where that behavioral, uh, science, uh, component and the, the self-determination theory really comes into. So in the first instance, we make patients aware of the tri of the clinical trials that are ongoing.

Speaker 2: The next stage is when they find a trial that they\'re interested in. Um, they will look at a bit more information on that in particular, um. Maybe 15, 20, um, points on the study that starts to build in the competency around the study. Um, and the intention of that is a patient or anyone else should be able to read these summaries, um, and be able to give, uh, as our American, uh, colleagues forward, uh, a one minute elevator pitch to anyone about what, what the study is.

Speaker 2: Um. About why to get involved. And we look at, at points that patients have told us, interest them, which are the risks, but equally as important, the benefits, the why of the study. Um, what happens with, with, with data. Um, in the tiered subscription, uh, we have, uh, information on, uh, compensation where that\'s available to patients.

Speaker 2: Um, and then just a, a, a summary of, of the study, assuming you like the, uh, or that study sounds interesting and the study is, uh, in a country that you can travel to if it\'s not in your own country. We then have a, a few, um, self-assessment, uh, tools. One of them looks at, uh, self-reported medical suitability.

Speaker 2: The second looks at decisional conflict because we all have some degree of conflict in any decision we make, but what we wanna assess is what level of conflict, and then the third tool looks at your ability as a person to see day-to-day tasks through completion. Which sounds maybe a bit silly, but actually it\'s not.

Speaker 2: Because if you think about a clinical trial, the expectations and the asks are amplified dramatically from day to day, even from clinical, uh, standard clinical care. And so, you know, as a patient, you want to be able to understand, do I fit? So ultimately, having completed these, these three tests. Or assessments, which take anything between two and say five minutes each.

Speaker 2: You pres, you are presented with three scores that show your suitability for the trial based on the answers you\'ve given. Now being a mobile first, um, uh, application. You are more likely to be honest because you\'re not telling anyone else your answers. You are, you are doing the answers with something that is extremely personal to you, which is a mobile phone.

Speaker 2: And so therefore, the, the, those results are, are typically more reliable. Once you have those three scores, it gives you an indication of how suitable you are for, um, for the study and if you deem yourself suitable. This is the relatability piece that, that we talk about within self-determination theory.

Speaker 2: We make it easy for you to connect with, with the research site. Um, we\'ll help you write a very simple email that protects the site, protects you in terms of the data that is being shared, but ultimately, um, once connecting to that site. That information from those tests will be shared. So the site can now see how suitable you are as per yourself, uh, self-reporting, and that will typically engage the site more.

Speaker 2: Here\'s another, uh, component of relatability. It now makes you relatable to, to the site, which typically will lead to a more immediate action, good or bad, in terms of, of the patient coming to you.

Speaker:There\'s so much to unpick there, and thank you for explaining that, Keith. I think, no, that thing. That\'s brilliant.

Speaker:Please don\'t apologize. It\'s, it\'s really fascinating because I think any patients or potential patients that are listening to this, I think would immediately be drawn in. I\'m curious around that.

Speaker:No login approach as a first point of reference, because if you don\'t log in, how do you connect human to research site without a login?

Speaker 2: So a, a number of platforms are looking to take your data quite, uh, early on, but the, the, there are a number that you don\'t need to log into to search. The only time that, or the first time, and only time we\'ll take any information from you is if you want to connect to a research site, and then we\'ll have, we\'ll ask you for your name, your telephone number and, and your email address.

Speaker 2: But still there, there\'s no login. Um, you know, our life\'s complicated enough. We asked to log into so many different. Uh, platforms, you don\'t need another one.

Speaker:So, so that was a rationale, that was a, a positive rationale that you thought would immediately differentiate you, because it does clearly,

Speaker 2: yeah, it, it does.

Speaker 2: As I said, there are other applications where you don\'t necessarily need to, um, where you don\'t need to log in, but you are asked quite early on to provide, um, personal history. Um. For me, I think the only time you should ever be asked to provide any personal data is if there is an action that you want to, you want to perform that will lead to a reaction from, from someone else rather than we, uh, we get your data stored in a database and, and keep emailing you incessantly until you ask us to go away.

Speaker 2: That, that was not the ethos.

Speaker:That, that sounds like something you may have learned along the way. Um. I\'m also curious to, to just follow on from that point with regards to the patient engagement.

Speaker:You made reference also to COVID and the pandemic, and during that time I remember lots of people signing up for clinical trials and opportunities to access COVID vaccines early if they enrolled in particular clinical trials.

Speaker:That whole experience centered around. What we called at the time, decentralized clinical trials. Mm-hmm. How does that sit alongside the approach that you\'re taking?

Speaker 2: So the, the, the platform that we\'ve developed is, uh, not geo, uh, it\'s not geography, uh, specific. Um, so it\'s available in, uh, all of the studies are available in 45 different languages.

Speaker 2: Uh, you can access it from, from anywhere. People are starting to travel for clinical research and decentralized, uh, clinical trials allows this to happen so patients can go to, uh, a central hub for the, uh, the start or components of this study and return, um, to effectively what would be a spoke site, um, to see out the, the, the rest of the study.

Speaker 2: So I think decentralized trials are very important in terms of, uh. Uh, these kinds of platforms, if used, uh, appropriately. And also, you know, the ability to explain to a patient how far they would have to travel, um, is presented in, in these platforms. Uh, there are studies that patients want to be part of.

Speaker 2: One that a patient I spoke to the other day is desperately, uh, keen to be part of a study that is not running in the uk but through the platform. Uh, identified that, uh, the study is running in Germany and he is more than willing providing the scientists Okay. With this to travel to and from because he doesn\'t have another option.

Speaker:Okay. That\'s really good to know.

Speaker:Um, the mobile first application seems to resonate now around that whole piece around you mentioned keeping people engaged through. Effectively gamifying. Right. Are there elements of of the platform that gamifying keep people engaged? Not just the once but multiple times to come back and be reminded, but without the necessity for those logins and Yeah.

Speaker 2: So it\'s something that we are certainly working on. Playing into the whole dating app analogy. You, you know, we don\'t turn this into a dating game. It, it\'s certainly not that, but we are looking at gamification to, for down the line, really looking at that retention piece that, that\'s in development. We do find though, that when we look at the, the, the metrics we have.

Speaker 2: A return rate of two to three, meaning that patient, an individual, is coming back two to three times to the platform to use it. So this is not a one and done, um, which is exactly what we were, what we wanted to achieve is that repeated use. And it, we make it simple for patients to, uh, store the studies within the platform with, uh, as long as, uh, their cookies are enabled.

Speaker 2: So they can return to studies, they can share it with, uh, their clinicians. They can share it with family members. But gamification is something that we are looking at very closely. In fact, I was talking to another patient yesterday, um, who, who spoke about how and where we should use, use this. And so we\'ve now asked him to, to join our developers.

Speaker 2: Um, in the planning for, for those next stages. And that\'s the, I think that\'s one of our big di differentiating factors. We\'ve involved patients in every single step of the process, from the initial concept through the build, through to the iterations, and then the innovations that will come, uh, from it.

Speaker:It sounds like you\'ve, you\'ve really thought this one through and I\'m, I\'m gathering that this has been.

Speaker:Something that you\'ve been thinking about for a long time. Is it? Yeah. Is it going, is it going as well as you hoped? And what have you learned around this initial journey of getting the business off the ground?

Speaker 2: It\'s a lot of work, but it, but I love it in terms of, uh, yeah, I\'ve learned a lot. I\'ve thought a lot about this.

Speaker 2: I think I must be sleeping. Two to three hours a night. I wear one of these, uh, rings that, uh, comments on your sleep. And I think it sent me a message the other day. I give up, take me off, leave me alone. Um, it\'s, you, you have to want, you have to love what you do and you have to have a drive that. You\'re constantly thinking about it.

Speaker 2: If you\'re gonna try and do something like this, where are we in terms of where I wanted to be? Well, I always want to be further along than I actually am. Um, but I do take a check with myself, so I keep a record of highs and lows. Um, so when there\'s a, a high that comes about and I on top of the world, I think this is the best thing ever.

Speaker 2: I go look back at the previous highs just to normalize myself. It\'s also extremely important when looking at the lows.

Speaker 2: There are days where nothing works or there there\'s some frustration with the platform, or I\'ve sent an email that I shouldn\'t have done. Um, go back and look at the lows. And it\'s actually not that bad.

Speaker 2: So I think we are actually ahead of where we wanted to be, um, because the platform is now quite different to what we had Orig originally envisaged. And we have a number of new components that are being worked upon, um, which I\'m keeping under wrap. But, um, that, that they\'ll be coming to, uh, a phone near you soon.

Speaker 2: We\'ve got a really strong team. We\'ve got industry, um, I shouldn\'t call him a veteran, but Jeff is an industry veteran. We\'ve got patients working, um, with communities. We\'ve got a group of ambassadors. We\'ve got an amazing engineering team, um, who, I cannot believe how young they are, but how knowledgeable they are and.

Speaker 2: We\'ve got a platform out there that patients are using daily. We had more than 35,000 users in in the, um, last month, which means that we must be getting something right. Have we got it all right? Not yet, but we\'re working on it. Um, we\'ve got patients that are now going on to studies, um, and that happened quite quickly, so.

Speaker 2: I\'d say we\'re pretty much on track and we\'ve got amazing investors in, in the business, all from the tech space. And with that, that gives me the domain expertise that I don\'t necessarily have. But ultimately we\'ve built out domain expertise across the board, across all the stakeholders that are involved.

Speaker 2: So if I did a, a three month report, I\'d say yeah, we\'re on track, still room for improvement, but I\'ll always say there\'s

Speaker:room for improvement.

Speaker:So you made reference to the fact that you\'ve taken on investment. Was that a big decision to make? How did that come about? Was this purely as a result of the success, the early success, or did you go looking for that investment?

Speaker 2: Uh, originally I was gonna do this all on my own, but building tech is a bit more expensive than I, I, I think most people realize. And you know, one, we had, we built the platform and launched the platform based on. Essentially myself funded funding this. And we could have continued on, um, with the way things are, but we\'re ambitious and we want the platform to do more.

Speaker 2: And we were starting to get feedback. It\'d be great if you could do this. It\'d be amazing if the platform did this. And I thought, you know, there are still problems to solve. We\'re not solving all the problems. There\'s more to solve. Um, but I\'ve gotta be realistic how far I can go funding wise and so on.

Speaker 2: And also, I\'ve gotta open the doors to other people who, who can move this on. So the decision was not taken easily to take on funding.

Speaker 2: Um, my cousin\'s involved in the business, um, first cousin and he. He\'s a very clever guy. Um, and you know, it was through him. We sat down, started iterating, building out a pitch deck, and actually that was extremely valuable in terms of focusing the business itself.

Speaker 2: And through him, um, predominantly, um, we were connected into a number of um, I\'d say some pretty significant in investors and they bought into what we\'re doing. I think they bought into us as much as the platform. Um, and they bought into the team that, that was the one thing that stuck with me. And, you know, over a course of five days, we were fully funded.

Speaker 2: Um, in fact, we were oversubscribed. Which, which is a really weird thing because like now other people are saying, we believe in you, we trust you. And so the pressure comes now, now you\'ve gotta go and do it. So it was a difficult decision to take. It adds another layer of complexity. But it\'s an interesting layer and also it gives us the, the firepower and, and, and the breathing space to actually improve the platform and make it even better than it is now and add additional features, some of which are just really cool.

Speaker 2: Like I cannot wait to release them end. Um, it just takes time for, to test and make them work properly. And so it\'s

Speaker:software. You, you referenced the fact that. There is a, a, a heavy lift financially in, in building tech and certainly that\'s been my experience and, and I\'ve used lots of off the shelf platforms, but have worked with startup companies in developing platforms, apps, patient recorded outcome devices and all sorts.

Speaker:So I absolutely align around those costs. I think aligning that with your drive and determination to get this into. The networks that it needs to connecting sites to patients and bringing the medicines to where they\'re needed as quickly as possible. It just reminded me around the fact that in clinical research and in clinical trials, there is always that kind of intersection between patients and data and medicine.

Speaker:And expertise and there\'s kind of this Venn diagram of overlapping and, and, and you are pulling all on all of those levers of opportunity to bring it around there. 35,000 users in a relatively short space of time, I would say is, is pretty impressive. Bearing in mind, those are patients that are coming to you and to your platform who are wanting to engage with clinical trials.

Speaker:I don\'t know how that compares to others in the market. Do you have any, any, any idea around that?

Speaker 2: I\'m

Speaker:just curious.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: I mean, me being competitive, um, I obviously look there, look there, there were platforms out there with, uh, significantly more people, um, coming to the platform, but they\'ve been around a lot longer.

Speaker 2: Then I look at the, uh, other, um, matching, uh, software services in in, in the space and. Some of them have anything between two and say 6,000, uh, users in, in, in the month. So I know that we are definitely resonating and we are resonating because we are not trying to be something, uh, that we are not, we are saying, here\'s the information.

Speaker 2: You may like it, you may not, but we are presenting it to you in a way that other patients have told us they want to see that information. Um, it\'s very easy to repurpose other information that\'s out there and just, uh. Uh, parcel it up and, and, and make it overly complicated. What we want is just, we are not the consent tool.

Speaker 2: We are the awareness tool. We are the engagement tool. We are there to pique your interest. If you are interested. You need to still go through that process and therefore we present information that. Patients have told us in our initial research before building the platform they want to hear. And, and so I\'m not surprised, I\'m surprised by the number of people that, that, that have seen the platform, but that I am pretty loud and fogy.

Speaker 2: Um, so, um, I\'m sure a lot of people have, have heard me. Um, but the information resonates and you know what, this patient that I spoke to yesterday. Um, an oncology patient. He said he loves the platform because it, he said it\'s like his, he could see this being a patient\'s North star. Um, as in it gives that guidance without pushing you down one direction or, or, or an up.

Speaker 2: Yeah,

Speaker:I think that\'s a great analogy.

Speaker:Um, with respect to how patients have found your platform, presumably you\'ve done a. A big job on marketing. I know you\'ve been cycling around London and taking videos in various different parts of London and talking to camera whilst you\'re doing so at some cost to your own, uh, wellbeing, how else are you getting your messaging out there?

Speaker 2: So we, we we\'re starting to use social media. Now a lot of it\'s been, we started with LinkedIn, um, because within, within LinkedIn you\'ve got. Um, all the stakeholders, the research sites, the uh, sponsors, the community groups and some patients, but you\'ve got a lot of patient engagement specialists, a lot of advocates and so on, and

Speaker 2: it\'s important to layer in. Again, you know, that\'s engaging as well. Layer in the base of who you are, what you do, why you do it, et cetera, et cetera. And do this on an ongoing basis and authentically. Um, and then people will start to talk to other people. I, I mean, it\'s weird. I\'ve, I\'ve spoken to some patients that, oh, uh.

Speaker 2: We heard about your platform on a forum, and I have no idea what forum they\'re talking about, but clearly the message is starting to get out there. We are now starting to use other social media, so, um, as you said, I\'m cycling around London, uh, but TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, these are not things that I, I use personally, uh, day in and day out, although I\'m starting to now.

Speaker 2: But I understand the value. It\'s really early on in, in that journey and the cycling around London, talking about, um, clinical trials. Uh, I mean, when the idea was presented to me, I, I\'m working with an amazing, uh, agency who are helping me with the social media. I thought, this is cringe. No one\'s gonna watch this.

Speaker 2: It\'s absolutely ridiculous. Who wants to listen to me and then look at the streets of wherever I am? We\'ve only put one episode out, but I\'ve had a ton of, uh, like messages, where are you going next? Really like this concept. And I think, you know, it\'s given me an understanding that actually p it, it\'s a way of communicating the message, but doing it in a very.

Speaker 2: Different way. And as long as the message goes in, I don\'t mind e even though it is cringe and I now know do not cycle up a hill while trying to talk about anything. Um, and so what I\'m gonna do, I\'ve filmed a, a few episodes here in London, so there\'s a, I think another one coming out tomorrow. And we\'re gonna do these weekly or we may increase, increase them, but I\'m also do a lot of traveling.

Speaker 2: So I\'m gonna use the opportunity to. Do a bit of filming and so on, in, in other places, you know, if it engages people and if, uh, patients and, and just people within the industry learn something from it, I\'ll keep doing it, um, until someone from the industry knocks me off my pike because they don\'t wanna hear me talk anymore.

Speaker:Uh, it did occur to me when I watched your video the other day. I was thinking, how on earth is he talking, cycling, watching where he is going and remembering what to say at the same time without having, uh, you know, like a script in front of you. I, I thought that was quite impressive in the fact that you were multitasking on that many levels and still holding the, you know, the, the, the bike handles and keeping in a direction.

Speaker:I loved it. I thought it was brilliant and. I think I sh Well, I know I shared the one that you put out on LinkedIn. I think it was terrific. Anything that cuts through the noise of the standard, you know, something that\'s different obviously stands out. We know that in algorithms. But also I think that anything that shows your human side.

Speaker:Mm. And why as a patient, I would engage with P Rx, engage. I think this can only be a good thing. It breaks down barriers. It makes you appear real.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I, I mean, you, you, you touched on one point there, and that is trust. Um, you know, people don\'t know me, so they need to get to know me, but not know, me, know P Rx engage and they need to trust the platform.

Speaker 2: And that\'s one element that is significantly lacking within, within the industry. And that\'s on, on all sides. You know, I, I\'m very. Conscious of the fact that I do talk about what\'s not necessarily working, but I do try and find, or, or, or give ideas of this is how, how, how we correct it. I\'m not perfect, I don\'t know everything.

Speaker 2: And the, but the, the one thing that I want to sign really get across is this is not a them versus us approach. It is not patients versus. Pharma, it is not, um, pharma versus the, the, the CRO. Um, it is not the community groups, uh, challenging the way in, in, in which certain, uh, processes work. We all need to develop trust within each other.

Speaker 2: The only way we do that is if we work together. Uh, that\'s very, from working very early on in the process, but then seeing this room continuing that, um, through, through the journey there were a number of, um. Groups who do not trust the way in which we work, and I think it\'s important that we acknowledge that upfront.

Speaker 2: Um, you know, why, why would you trust me if you don\'t know me? And why would you trust me if I\'m not honest? That, look, we all make mistakes. I think that the thing that has to come across better is I\'m not aware of anyone that works in our industry that does it. Purely for the money. Um, because there are a lot easier ways to, to make money.

Speaker 2: And if you think about the industry we work in clinical trials where failure is more common than success. No one walks into that waking up going, oh, I hope I fail today. Um, you know, everyone\'s working to be better to innovate and I think it needs to come across better. And, you know, the mediums that we\'re using and the dating app analogy is just to.

Speaker 2: Try and remove those barriers, um, and build some trust.

Speaker:Couldn\'t agree with you more there, Keith.

Speaker:Um, you mentioned around the people that come into our industry and those that you work around every day. And as I\'ve got older and had more life experiences, I know you have. Those principles crystallize around your purpose, your vision, your drive, and your imperatives that get you out of bed every morning.

Speaker:I know you\'re a parent like I am. We\'ve both got teenage and slightly older kids now and, and I think also being a parent changes your perspective on what that is gonna be like for our next generation behind us. I can\'t imagine how. Challenging some of the things that that, that my kids are gonna have to deal with.

Speaker:They\'re both at university right now and I think yours are slightly younger. Yeah. But nevertheless, the next generation who are living and growing up with technology in the palm of their hand from day one are gonna have a very different experience, uh, around not just patient engagement, but in all aspects of their life.

Speaker:And I wonder if you wanted to just elaborate around that a bit.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think ai, like without ai, I would be not as far along as, as, as I am. Um, and I think it is gonna become a very important compo, well, it already is an extremely important component of, of what we do and, and, and day-to-day life for the kids.

Speaker 2: You know, I hope for a world in which certain. Uh, conditions and diseases are just a thing of the past, and we are moving towards that in terms of, um. The types of therapies that have been developed. You know, if you look at gene editing, um, drugs and the, the, these effectively one and dones, we are course correcting on an individual basis.

Speaker 2: Um, and that\'s amazing. And that\'s, that\'s happening now, which means it happens in our children\'s and their, and, and their children\'s, uh, lifetimes. But with that will come other challenges to, to, to overcome. So. Look, I don\'t know what the future holds other than it seems very bright. There is more innovation today than I, I\'ve seen in, in a long time.

Speaker 2: Um, and people are thinking about a number of conditions that, you know, in the past were just ignored or misdiagnosed and therefore ignored in, in terms of, of, of research and development. So I think we\'re in a. We\'re in a, a good space, it could be better. Um, but I think the future for our children, as long as they embrace technology with it, um,

Speaker:is right.

Speaker 2: It\'s good.

Speaker:I think it\'s a really lovely place to, to move on to our quick fire round. You, you\'ve shared so much there, Keith. Um, I know this will resonate with our audience and I hope it will resonate with your audience as well. You know, those patients that are looking to come into clinical research reinforcing.

Speaker:The facts around why we do what we do, why you are doing what you do, your why. And I think that\'s fascinating and honestly, thank you for being so open and frank about that.

Speaker:So what is the one piece of advice you would give to your younger self, Keith?

Speaker 2: Um, just stop trying to impress people who just don\'t get you or don\'t get it.

Speaker 2: Um. You know, take risks when you feel they\'re appropriate. And then for myself and, and for many others, just take a break every once in a while that that\'s, that\'s what I tell my younger self.

Speaker:I like that. Uh, what are the top three qualities you most value when building a team? And presumably you are looking at this list all the time at the moment.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Uh, I\'m not keen on drama. Um, so definitely low drama, high output individuals. You know, we, we are not making a movie. We, we want a, a, a team that works, uh, well together. I would also prefer to work with someone who is smart rather than, uh, slick you, you know, some people are just not patient facing or, or, or outward facing, but, um, you know, someone who, who gets the work done over someone who talks about the work is what I look for.

Speaker 2: Um, and then. I think we\'re, we are losing our sense of humor these days. Um, so people who can take a joke who are not gonna necessarily take everything. Uh, so, um, personally, who, who are able to, I don\'t know, just be how we were a, a little while back. I know the world has changed. I know we need to be more sensitive, but, you know, sometimes just, just take a joke.

Speaker:Um, what is your favorite thing outside of work? What do you enjoy the most?

Speaker 2: Uh. Well, I, I should say my family. Um, I do, uh, I love my family, but, uh, you know, for me it\'s, I, I love the cycling and so the cycling is part of what I do every day, and that\'s my time to myself and the odd, uh, uh, vlog or pod or whatever it\'s called.

Speaker 2: Um, but it\'s my opportunity to, to, to think about what\'s going on, just to switch off, to listen to a podcast, um, and just not think for a little

Speaker:while. That\'s brilliant. And finally, what is your number one golden rule for life and business? Keith,

Speaker 2: having not necessarily lived by this in the past? Um, I think you can be direct without being disrespectful. Um, you know, there\'s, there\'s no upside to pulling someone out in, in public. Um, you know, treat people like adults. Let them do their work. Um, and just remember that, you know, just a title doesn\'t make you important.

Speaker 2: Uh, and you\'re as important as, as the next person next to you in, in that shape. So just treat people with respect. You\'ll get it back in return.

Speaker:A hundred percent. Echo that point. Really appreciate that. So.

Speaker:As I said, we\'ve had a wonderful conversation today, Keith. I think I\'ve enjoyed it. Could talk. We, we could talk for an awful lot longer.

Speaker:I know that and, and maybe we\'ve opened up the door for episode two of this conversation. Um, there\'s plenty you\'ve shared today, plenty of learnings and I think there will be some wonderful nuggets that our audience will enjoy listening back to. Nevermind the patients that I hope this will go out to. So, you know, you are clearly driven by intention and.

Speaker:Positive purpose and that comes across in everything that you say and that you do. So I can\'t thank you enough for being as honest as you have. And for anyone that is listening to this, what\'s the best way that they can get in contact with you, Keith and PRX engage?

Speaker 2: Uh, you can. I\'m always on LinkedIn. Um, so it\'s, uh, Keith, and that\'s LinkedIn.

Speaker 2: If you\'re not on LinkedIn, um, you knowKeith@prxengage.com. Um, I\'ve got no issue with my email address being out there. Um, and I also consciously put my mobile phone number out there because there are gonna be times where patients just wanna speak to someone, not wait for an email, whatever. So I\'m not gonna put that on the podcast, but it, it, my number is out there.

Speaker 2: So Keith, um, at prx engage.com or find me on LinkedIn, look forward to, um,

Speaker:helping where I can. Any patients that are looking to find out more about these clinical trials, the address of the website,

Speaker 2: so that the website is, uh, p rx engage.com. Um, and that\'s the front end of the website. And from there you can get into the application.

Speaker 2: Um, I do encourage you to look at the front end of the website, uh, because it, there\'s a lot of resources there in terms of blogs that I\'ve written. Uh, just about how to manage, uh, with a clinical trial, um, either from an industry perspective, from a a patient perspective as well. It\'ll arm you better when looking for your, for your

Speaker:trials.

Speaker:That\'s fabulous. Thank you very much. Um, once again, I\'d like to thank you for coming on, pharma prescribed today. Keith, it\'s been an absolute delight and absolute pleasure, and I wish you all the very best with Purex engage in the future. Thanks for coming. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot.