Artem Adrianov — RBQM, Fraud Detection & a Young CEO Program Outperforming MBAs

Speaker:I am Adam Walker, a biometrics consultant, and this is the Pharma Prescribed Podcast where leaders, innovators, and hidden voices in healthcare open up, no sound bites, no spin, just raw insight, one prescription at a time. In an industry driven by data protocols and pressure, we rarely pause to ask the human questions.

Speaker:What drives us, what breaks us, and what truths live behind the titles we wear? Our guest today is Artem Adriano, mathematician strategist, Risk-Based Quality Management, trailblazer as co-founder and CEO of Integrity. He spent over 25 years transforming clinical trials through data intelligence and risk-based methodologies.

Speaker:With a PhD in mathematical modeling and an executive MBA from CAS Business School, Artem blends scientific rigor with business acumen to make trials safer, smarter and more efficient. Since launching SEG in 2013, he's led the development of platforms that optimized trial oversight.

Speaker:Reduce monitoring costs and elevate data quality. His work spans collaborations with big Pharma and his expertise covers spirometry, ECG, oncology, E Pros, and centralized monitoring. A speaker and educator RM has presented at numerous global conferences and co-authored the Definitive Guide to RBQM for clinical researchers.

Speaker:His company's training arm. My RBQM Academy has educated over 1500 professionals from more than 400 organizations setting the standard for RBQM implementation worldwide. Whether modeling risk or mentoring the next generation of trial leaders, Artem is reshaping how the industry thinks about quality, reliability, and patient safety Art, it's a pleasure to welcome you to Pharma Prescribed Today.

Speaker:How are you doing?

Speaker:Speaker 2: Thank you, Adam. I'm, uh, very pleased to be here. Yeah, I'm, I'm great. I'm feeling great. Thanks a lot for asking.

Speaker 2: And I just, uh, finished my regular four days fasting, which, uh, I do every quarter. And that gives me some clarity in mind. Gives me booster in energy and, um, I hope I could share this energy with all our, uh, listeners today.

Speaker:That's fabulous. And. I must firstly congratulate you on that. Uh, how have you been for the last four days? Have you been grumpy or have you been clear and thought provoking? What has it done for you?

Speaker:Speaker 2: So I'm not doing it for the first time. So I am quite aware about all the cycles of, uh, of the body, so to say, which, uh, usually go through.

Speaker:And it's of course kind of, it could be compared with the waves when you feel, um, either very energetic or very, uh, weak for a while, but it's normal. And actually when you go through it, you can unfold your hidden potential, which you haven't even been aware about.

Speaker:That's absolutely fabulous.

Speaker:The longest I've ever gone fasting for is 24 hours, and that's a religious fast that I follow every year. But as I mentioned before, we came on onto the recording, I've been doing intermittent fasting for probably a year, 18 months, and have found that to be really, really helpful to my day-to-day.

Speaker:Activities, digestion, just general sharpness. Is that what you are finding?

Speaker:Speaker 2: I was, uh, very curious about this. Uh, when I heard that Sotos has done it many, uh, centuries ago for clarity of mind, and in fact, uh, he was, uh, explicitly. Sharing this, uh, this benefits. Uh, so, um, what you mentioned health benefits are of course, was one of the motives as well for me.

Speaker:But clarity of mind is that's what I definitely enjoy and, um, in my day-to-day. Activities in my day-to-day work, uh, that's, uh, super, super beneficial. So, I have for sure I've been increasing productivity through that making actually, or fulfilling, uh, double more tasks in the, the same period of time focus has increased and other things.

Speaker:And that's why, again, I've decided like already several years ago to do it regularly. Um, uh, my record was for now five days, but it's not by far, not the, uh, the longest. So to say that was recorded as far as I remember, the, uh, world record was 380 days. Yes.

Speaker:My goodness, that must have been a hungry, old time and they must have got an awful lot of work done.

Speaker:Thank you for the insight and I'm sure we, we could do another podcast on that one.

Speaker:But, um, for those of our audience who are not familiar with you, Artem, obviously, when, when I opened up the podcast, I gave you a little bit of background, is there more that you'd like to expand upon around SEG and how you came to to be here today?

Speaker:Speaker 2: Yeah, I, Adam, first of all, I want to say that, uh, it's seg is definitely not me. I'm staying and enjoying the the company of wonderful leaders and, uh, it's really my pleasure to to be to, uh, to actually co-design a company together. So, um. Originally and, uh, many years ago, it's actually 12 years ago I was, um, considering what would be the mixture of everything I really love in my life.

Speaker:And, uh, it was medicine, it was, uh, data management or data science. It was, um, mathematics and, uh, solving challenging problems. And, um, actually when, um, it. Was, came together in one of my dialogue with, uh, one of our product manager at ERT that days who said, you know what, um, Artem, there is no really good fraud detection, uh, mechanism in, in the industry.

Speaker:And fraud was a really challenging problem. Um, in fact, it remains still in pharma as a challenge, uh, which really few people are talking about. And I thought, uh, that's worth of exploring. I thought that this is definitely something, uh, something which kind of raised my curiosity. I was starting to look around in other industries how they solved it.

Speaker:Reading books from finance, for example, where, uh, there's a big topic looking around and again, uh, finding exciting, uh, math methods. Which actually, uh, we apply in fact integrity right now as well. Um, uh, for example, Benford's Law or the, um. Algorithms, uh, which detect the digital repeatability and they all can un wheel and show, so to say, uh, certain fraudulent cases.

Speaker:However, uh, it's just one risk we're talking about. There are many other risks in clinical research and, um, uh, each of them really. Um, it requires its own dedicated approach. So, uh, the more I explore this exciting world, the more I thought that there's a kind of a real potential for a company. So my team and I, we are exited, uh, together and started an independent data quality bureau many years ago.

Speaker:And, uh, the name actually came out of out of the mission together, so to say. It's, uh, uh, clinical cyber integrity, so to say. Uh, so it's mixture of everything medicine, mathematics, engineering, and um, and, uh, risk management and, uh, or integrity, which is a bigger uh, kind of term overall. And, uh, since day one, in fact, we're focused on this topic building more and more algorithms in some workflow driven software.

Speaker:And then allowing and helping many, many pharma companies, in fact to to risk their clinical trials in a consistent, practical and very measurable way so that they can really see the advantages of these, of doing this, uh, systematically.

Speaker:It sounds fabulous, and having met you now in person, as we did at the conference, the AI conference in Frankfurt a couple of months ago, what I said to you then, I'll, I'll maintain and, and repeat again is your eye for detail, but also I think the sweet swap between medical science and the mathematical modeling that you come from is very clear.

Speaker:When I heard you speak on stage, it resonated really, really loudly that you had a really lovely. Cross section of skills that lent themselves very well to this particular area. And of course, you know that, but as someone who hadn't met you before and hadn't heard you speak, it was very, very clear that you absolutely knew the minutia about which you were describing.

Speaker:And is that really underlying everything that you do? Is it, is it important to you to be involved in the detail?

Speaker:Speaker 2: I definitely feel still that again, it's, um, we are not so big as a company. So to say that, uh, I can remain uh, let's say completely abstract from what is happening, uh, within.

Speaker:Kind of day-to-day life. First of all, it's also not my management style. On the contrary, I do prefer interfere and also control, uh, literally, uh, every step. However at the end of the day, it's not about pointing that, uh, how it could be done rather. Removing the roadblocks for people who are involved, allowing them to show their potential.

Speaker:And, uh, that was from, again that's DNA of s integrity.

Speaker 2: From the very beginning, we started an internal leadership program, for example, and, uh, we named it, uh, YC program. Why? Because actually, young generation, uh, would like to test themself elsewhere in co shoes, and we allow them to experiment.

And in fact, compared to. Classical MBA, uh, programs, for example, where you mostly kind of read theory and try to understand how it would be in practice. Here we have an opportunity to test the ideas right away. To experiment, to run the projects with the real timelines, with the real promises decide on the very sim important strategic decisions.

So, uh, to this group of young CEOs, I'm sending sometimes the um, an important decision that they need to take. And, showing all the details and saying, okay, will you sign this contract, yes or no? Tell me the decision. That's exciting opportunity for them to dec to, yeah, to experiment.

Yeah. Without big risk, of course. That's all. Um. So to say with the with the culture, which SEG is about. So SEG is actually very much about allowing young employees and young colleagues to be a bit more than what they were hired for, to grow, to show their potential and continuously evolve together with the company.

Yeah that's what I was.

Speaker:That sounds fantastic. It's the sort of thing that at the beginning of my career would've been really, really helpful because as I'm sure you experienced, I certainly did that you learn through doing, but actually you learn through your mistakes, don't you? And to your point, you know, you make mistakes and there are, there are risks associated with that.

Speaker:You don't always make the right decisions. Certainly. And there comes a point that later on in life. More generally where you recognize the mistakes that you've made and perhaps how you don't make them once again. And that's about pattern recognition, isn't it? But it sounds like this young CEO program, you allow people to learn through doing, but without the big risks, and be that without the financial cost of making the wrong decision.

Speaker:Speaker 2: Not only that, I mean we learn as well as leadership team who are involved into the training of these young CEOs continuously. So first of all, it's a big motive for us to refresh our our background information, uh, about. Uh, how everything is happening, so to say how uh, companies are run today because it changes as well.

Speaker:But also we learn to see things from different angles. Yeah. And sometimes really, um, unexpected decisions and, uh, the decisions which, for example, our leadership team wouldn't. Wouldn't take enough courage to, so to say, to, to, to do, uh, these young CEOs, uh, in fact do this, go in this direction.

Speaker:And it turned to be also one of the most, for example, profitable branch, uh, so to say or idea for the company. So, first of all we are ourself very encouraged, very engaged in the to observe this campaigning. But elsewhere for for our colleagues, it's a, a huge booster of motivation.

Speaker:They invest, by the way, they are private time. Uh, we provide Elsa psychologists to work with them and to go through this certain transformation. Um, uh, we go through will kind of make d uh, um. Uh, journaling, uh, with them on the, through whole period. It's about two years program, so through whole period.

Speaker:So to see this also evolution, um, and again, that brings fruits fruits which you couldn't even imagine as a company because whenever you hire a manager, so to say into the company who come, um, out of other, industries or companies, they bring their own culture. The, this culture starts to shake it actually shifts, so to say the values, even if it's not noticeable in the beginning.

Speaker:And if you allow to grow for young leaders inside of the company, then these values get. Cemented, in fact, into the actions, into the decisions in the future. So that's what we definitely observe. What we definitely see and part of our decision, strategic decision was continuously promote our internal employees rather than hiring, so to say big management from outside.

Speaker:I love that. That's really encouraging. And I know we have a lot of listeners who are new to the industry. Certainly I support the alumni at the University of Greenwich and, and a number of other, uh, institutions. And I think what you are describing is really how people can get into the industry and. You invest in these people for at least two years, they're already permanent employees and you're giving them the opportunity to learn on the job effectively, like an apprenticeship.

Speaker:Is that correct? Have I understood that? Correct?

Speaker:Speaker 2: Yes. Correct. The program as actual big investment, of course, from the company as well. We invite guest speakers. We invite founders of different companies to speak about their path. Uh. Managers from, uh, big pharma mid pharma, they, um, show their kind of secrets.

Speaker:Uh, they learned their lives, and all that remains as a DNA, again, here in the footprint of DNA and um, within the company. And, um, all these contributes to, to the evolution of these young leaders step by step. And of course it's a, it's a slow but rather fruitful process.

Speaker:And again I know and I understand that it's probably not very much popular among, uh, for example, other companies who are willing to have. Immediately results visible for, I dunno, from their found founding private equities or VCs. Uh, in the contrast, integrity is founder owned company still.

Speaker:So everything we do is dedicated to a long-term success. And this is elsewhere relates to our customers. And our employees. So these are the most these, the most important assets that company has.

Speaker:That's incredibly impressive Artem.

Speaker:If we have people that are interested in this program, how would they find out about that particular program?

Speaker:Is this something where you have to know someone who knows someone, or is it advertisement, integrity's website? How would people find out about that opportunity?

Speaker:Speaker 2: That's a good question. So every employee of integrity is allowed to apply certain period, uh, of a year. And there is a certain process they kind of need to record a video and describe so to say why they would be the best fit for this program.

Speaker:And there is a committee who actually selects out of all the applications, the best ones with whom we are actually do additional interviews. For those who who are not selected, we do additional discussions as well. Um, again, explaining why it's not the right fit right now. So of course we have limited number of seats and the program for sure.

Speaker:However, that's a continuous iterative process. And again, those who are, uh, not able to kind of join now, for example, could join in two years. We kind of think elsewhere, and this is again very new. As we speak, uh, we kind of think that might be this program is elsewhere would benefit if there will be some some participants outside of the company.

Speaker:It a very radical idea. However presumably it'll be definitely additional benefit. Yeah. So it's not only the cohort of employees who, who know kind of how our process work, but some outsider would probably give another flavor of, um, maybe additional ideas. So we kind of experiment and think about it for the next, uh, for the next iteration, which will be at the end of the year.

Speaker:That's a really interesting point of course to mention the word that comes with risks, doesn't it? You open your doors, you share your ip, of course you're covered by NDAs or CDAs, but I would imagine that having a fly on the wall that can look in outside of the Goldfish bowl and see it for what it is perhaps could also reap enormous dividends in the fact that it's very rare that you get people to come in and, and actually.

Speaker:Tell you the good or the bad that they see immediately. Usually it's a client, it's a client situation, isn't it? And everyone's very polite and we'll stand behind our, you know, our job titles and whatever. But, uh, I would imagine that would be a real opportunity to innovate and change, particularly if there is an open policy around sharing information and.

Speaker:Sharing the truths, shall we say, around the, uh, what's the elephant in the room type question, you know, what's the thing that you saw that no one else is seeing? What are we all colorblind to?

Speaker:Speaker 2: Indeed. Exactly. That's what um, provokes us to, so to say to think about this, this approach.

Speaker:And yeah hope that more information will appear near to the end of the year on our website. And again, hope, uh, if somebody from listeners of this podcast would be, uh, interested I'm sure that, uh, our HR for example, would be happy to already accept some sort of applications.

Speaker:That sounds absolutely fascinating.

Speaker:So. If I can just on one final point around that particular thing, where did the idea come from? How did this get dreamed up? Was it an experience that you'd had somewhere else or someone else had come up with this idea? Because this is quite innovative and very unusual in our industry. It's very conservative by very nature, and we generally tend to stick to process.

Speaker:We stick to what we know. Is that fair?

Speaker:Speaker 2: There. Yeah.

Speaker 2: First of all uh, one of the ideas or part of this idea actually evolved from experiments of my wife, who was, uh, involved as a, in a young leadership program at Ally Lilly, which is a also, by the way, uh, very famous by promoting internal employees and actually building and developing leadership, uh, so to say inside of the company.

Maybe part of it is actually explains, uh, the successes of this company, so to say, uh, in the recent years. Another, uh, inspiration I received when I read uh, articles about Johnson and Johnson. In fact this is the company elsewhere, which is focused on continuous. Promotion of internal employees, uh, rather than hiring management, so to say, from outside exactly from this from this reason that they would don't want to disturb the culture.

Uh, merging together and thinking again uh, what would be our path integrity's way, so to say. Uh, we came to this, uh, to this, uh, idea. And again, uh, first cohort was already finished. Uh, and we, again, we were just blown by results, frankly speaking. So, we've got management who are motivated, who are well experienced, who are understanding the domain, who are re really pushing forward.

And now the company is actually feeling this. Um, around, in various departments. Yeah, so, and that's, that's on itself a particularly exciting to observe.

Speaker:Incredibly impressive and thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate the fact that you've been so honest and open about that because it's very rare that companies will come onto a podcast and talk about their DNA.

Speaker:This is effectively your DNA. It's integrity's, DNA, isn't it? It's a thing that makes you, you as a company, as an organization, it underpins everything that you do and the interesting work that you are performing, but also I think it gives an insight to our listeners. As to the real deep company culture and the drive from the top down, from yourself through your leadership team and your next generation of leaders that are coming through the organization.

Speaker:As we know, bringing in people from outside can be very expensive. It can be very timely, but actually, if you're building that from the ground up, you're building very firm foundations upon which the organization can then grow and.

Speaker:My sense is, and maybe you could, maybe you can elaborate on this, what kind of retention rate are you working to now?

Speaker:Speaker 2: Retention rate is is incredible. In fact, um, we are very proud in fact about our particular retention rate. I mean it's around, two, 3%, uh, if I'm not mistaken, in a recent time. At the same time again you mentioned about the the cost. So, uh, again, this is a, uh, a different allocation of the cost.

Speaker:If you think about it. Again, uh. The approaches, which usually company are taken, are more short term driven. And, uh, in the particular of integrity, we have the luxury to think long term, which is on itself indeed luxury. Yeah. So in the modern world and, um. If you think long term only by means with this mindset, so to say, you have the ability to achieve something in credible something which really turns the industry, something which really hits the ground.

Speaker:So to say that's actually allow or make something ground shaking, so to say. And this is what again, happening step by step. And of course, uh, you need a lot of patience and resilience growing through that. However, I believe that through recent years we were already to to demonstrate and, uh, learn about resilience and about patients. And, uh, that's actually what, uh, helps us to build something which we really believe in.

Speaker:Yeah, that's powerful. It's powerful and it sounds tangible as well.

Speaker:So with regards to s Integrity, what is the size of the company these days and, and, and what is that looking like for you at the moment?

Speaker:What's your plans for the next couple of years as far as growth goes?

Speaker:Speaker 2: So currently we have 50 employees. In fact, considering that, uh, we're not picked up by any VC or private equity fund, so it's all self-funded uh, means that also that uh, in kind of, uh, whenever it's possible we do build rather software that works, not hiring additional employees, so to say.

Speaker:And, uh, that's actually, part of our engineering engine, so to say, which is in fact also incredibly scalable managing for about thousands of studies with these 15 employees is something, uh, again, tells about the engineering complexity. Background. So, uh, where we're heading, we are heading, in fact, uh, in fact we're staying now in, in front of the, uh, large transformation for industry, partly driven by the regulatory I-C-H-S-X-R three, which knocks our doors or already kind of, in our doors.

Speaker:Partly because of the global trends. Data analysis, AI making, um, agentic decisions creating smart solutions, which can really reduce routine work. Yeah. Which can help people to do people there job in a smarter way. That's where we are staying. We're staying in front, in front of a large revolution if you want kind of.

Speaker:Rather striking word. However this is indeed, uh, what I really believe in and it's a kind of like a perfect storm situation when industry on the one hand side has to evolve, yeah. Has to change, uh, has to do transformation. And on the other hand side industry which in fact it's forced to change by the regulatory shift.

Speaker:With this again, we expect rapid growth within the next two years. So 2250, 300 employees in terms of this stuff, for example. But also revenue wise, uh, we expect multiplying of the revenues to what we have at the moment. And we are prepared for that. In fact, what we're building this and uh, solutions and scalability for last years and testing and experimenting in large settings in a large, with the large companies how to make solutions scalable.

Speaker:Um, a certain point scalability and ability to create. Benchmark evaluations a great and industry insights, uh, will define, uh, the future of RBQM industry or quality by design industry if you want. So this is where we moving so to say as a, as a whole farmer. That all allow alone, uh, will open a new opportunities for pharma to to benefit from analysis of the data that they have already in place, therefore, that they have the, they possess already.

Speaker:I,

Speaker:I, I'm curious, it was something that we talked about at the recent conference we were both at around ai. You made mention of it.

Speaker:What do you think is the biggest challenge currently facing clinical research and drug development at the moment? In and around that space, in and around the AI chat that's happening at the moment.

Speaker:Speaker 2: Uh, let me uh, give you an example. Yeah, provide you an example. So, imagine you would fly with the airplane and this airplane would be managed by pharma, let's say, um, somewhere from London to New York. You would fly 10 times. Eight out of this out of 10 times would come two days later than you would planned.

Speaker:Two of these flights will crash completely and, uh, the price, so to say that you would pay in the beginning would continuously double. So this is the situation we are facing right now in the pharma. And, uh, is it a challenge? Yes, it is. Is it is, is there any room of improvement? It's a huge room. Yeah.

Speaker:Look in the other industries, how they managed. In fact for example, also with risk management, how they moved forward. Yeah. How securities to fly now from London to New York, one of the di disasters would come once out of 5 million flights. This is actually what we need to. Focus and to to improve in pharma.

Speaker:If one study out of 5 million studies would fail to do different reasons, I think then our mission would be achieved. But again that's a long path ahead of us. And this is also so exciting. So exciting because the potential of improvements are, is so large, so big, and on various scales Yeah, where we can talk about recruitment challenges.

Speaker:We can talk about data quality challenges. We could talk about transparency and, um, conflict of interests within clinical trials. Um, and that's actually what we are improving step by step. So I compare s integrity to Bloomberg for pharma. So this is what we want to achieve. We want to get a similar uh, scale of insights, of depth of the insights for clinical trials.

Speaker:We want to share a transparently with sponsor companies and with CROs. We want to create an environment where they can. Not do some finger pointing, rather do some sort of mutual mutually oriented, conclusion oriented decision making environment decisions, which are, which are taken with risks in mind.

Speaker:This is what Rrb M is about. This is what quality by design is about. So, um, and, uh. We are just in the beginning of this process, as you might already understand

Speaker:it. It's a fascinating insight and I, I love that analogy around, around the airplane. It's, you know, the black box thinking is something that comes to mind as soon as you were talking about that.

Speaker:But I think you made the point around perfect being the enemy of the good, really. So what we hope is for patients to be safe at all times and. Patient wellbeing, not to be put under risk in any clinical trial, in any drug that's been administered to humans, but I think to your point, you know, it's around the scalability, isn't it?

Speaker:It's around the speed of action. And right now my sense is that we are in a very fast moving environment where those that can adapt and be adaptable, like the way you're describing ity, is. They will be those that are at the front of the queue for the next round of opportunities. That's my sense. Is that, is that fair?

Speaker:Speaker 2: It reminds me about Darwin's quote. Yeah. He said not the smartest, uh, will survive not the strongest but the most adaptable. In, I believe in the pharma space again, this definitely. The case as well in the pharma companies. So we see continuous change of environment. Yeah. As, uh, theory of evolution.

Speaker:We see that regulatory change changes. We see political influence. We see coronavirus sometimes hit whole world. We see that different trade wars appear between countries. It's all influences the way how we plan and fulfill clinical trials. And in this challenging environment, in fact, it's extremely difficult, as you said, to maintain patient safety, but also not only patient safety, but also to re reduce their burdens, uh, which which they feel it's extremely difficult.

Speaker:Being able to. First of all, understand the changes. Take the con conclusions in the right time. Yeah, with the right weight, so to say, take the actions about these conclusions. That's what in fact where R becomes definitely very handful. Very handy. So this is where we we see already wonderful case studies with our customers.

Speaker:This is where we, uh, we see also the tangible, practical improvements in there for patients as well, for sites. So it's way more transparent, understandable for them, how to work, what quality criteria pharma expects, um, and, um, in many cases, uh, that, that lead leads also to uh, more compliant, more predictable successes of clinical trials.

Speaker:That's a great answer. And you've reminded me around the, um, the point that we started off where you were talking about your, your own. Fasting and I was gonna ask the question around, you know, what you're learning around about yourself through this entire process, because clearly you've been doing this a very long time, and you're getting better and better and smarter and faster and surrounding yourself with better people.

Speaker:Is that I, I think, I think that's what I'm hearing.

Speaker:What is it that you've learned about yourself through this entire career that you've had to date? And no doubt, you know, will take you forward.

Speaker:Speaker 2: First of all, I, I've understood that, I should not understand and really go in, in, in, in everything.

Speaker:So I shouldn't be good in everything. So far what is more important is to create a great team around the ideas, so to say, uh, around the vision that is clear to everybody. That is. Again, a achievable to and looks achievable, uh, that looks meaningful, that looks understandable and really changing so to say the world.

Speaker:And, uh, step by step, this team can do wonderful. Can show wonderful results. These results, uh, will be visible also within the business will, these results will be visible in the industry as well. And kind of, that's, that's one, uh. First of kind of this lesson, which I've learned compared to the early days when again, as a founder, you do literally everything.

Speaker:You do bookkeeping, you do hiring, you do marketing and everything, everything. So, again, that was already a certain point uh, a mistake. However, again, uh, I think we have. Quite clearly understood at a certain point that's not the right path. Another big lesson I believe is, uh, also that, uh, what really matters is, um, quality and everything. So quality and ideas, quality and the implementation quality in, in the delivering the value to customer where, uh, cutting corners, in fact, uh, by some other, companies would, uh, would lead again to a short term benefits, but not long term excitement.

Speaker:Therefore our best, kind of relationships with customers are really those relationships which started step by step without big jumps. Yeah. But they were a, uh, companies were able to adapt to the methodology, to the way of thinking, to the way of implementing.

Speaker:Visualizing and seeing that and understanding that. Uh, the step-by-step approach has actually turned out to be way more efficient than a big band approach compared again, which sometimes is applied. When I dunno, big, uh, manager decides, okay, we want to do it for all clinical trials right away.

Speaker:And that turns out to be um, usually a disaster. Yeah. Particularly in large organizations. Why? Because. Employees are not binding, so to say, this decision. Yeah. They're not into that. Sites are lost. In fact, and sometimes we, we hear funny stories that sites understand RPM, like reduced based monitoring.

Speaker:Yeah. So this is something why, because they don't see crass coming. Nobody explained to them that something has changed and sometimes it even. Nothing was changed, in fact, as well. Which is again, uh, one of the big people of, uh, whole risk-based approach. Yeah. Doing some sort of under RBM flag reduced monitoring without any other adjustments.

Speaker:So, um. Long story short again. Thus path, this path of, uh, 12 years was literally, um, continuous path of of self reflection, understanding, lessons learned. Was, which was full of again, excitement wins, but also dramatic shakings. And, uh, similar like again with the fasting, uh, I'm glad that you brought this analogy.

Speaker:In fact for companies, sometimes this is useful also to, to be for a certain period of time, uh, so to say in a kind of fasting mode and see, and then reflect and understand, okay, are we delivering the best value on the market? Are we providing the best services? And that alone, again helps to improve.

Speaker:Thank you for sharing that Altan. That's absolutely brilliant.

Speaker:And I think a really nice way to then, uh, move into the quickfire round, which is how I like to conclude our discussion. So what is the one piece of advice you would give to your younger self?

Speaker:Speaker 2: To my younger self, never go into into entrepreneurship.

Speaker:I would say if I may allow, um, always believe in the, what you're doing. Despite of any other opinions around and try to continuously try to be better today than you were yesterday.

Speaker:Excellent. What are the three top qualities you value most when building a team?

Speaker:Speaker 2: Very good question.

Speaker:I really value a passion around what we do. And I always ask, for example, young students who join, uh, our team what, like what their parents were doing how they are. Were, are there, were they involved, for example, in medicine so far or in pharma so far? Why they decide to go into this kind of mixture of different sciences, um, and, we do not hire, uh, if people are not really passionate about this particular kind of, mixture. And it's, um, again, it's a different type of, uh. If you would do something for pharma or, uh, develop some websites, I dunno, for gaming industry you have to be a bit crazy about it, so to say, in the, in the, in the pharma space when we see, for example, how patients survives from oncology. And it really you, you see the whole lives of, say, of a patient on one screen. It's really something deep going and it's really something incredibly motivating. Because it's not just a curve. It's not, not just a graph. It's a whole story behind.

Speaker:And it's actually if we are part of this story. Of changing life for somebody, making some therapy more accessible, quicker accessible, and higher quality, accessible. Uh, I believe it's worth of existence as a company and as a human.

Speaker:That's wonderful. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for your openness.

Speaker:What is your favorite thing or your greatest passion outside of your work? It sounds like you're very busy, but I'm sure there are things that, that light your fire outside of work and what would they be?

Speaker:Speaker 2: I passionately play piano. I think speaking, I have a wonderful grant at home, uh, which I really admire and it was, it is a kind of, uh, I.

Speaker:Sometimes some colleagues, uh, make jokes that I like everything with keys. Yeah. So keyboard or, and, uh, this, this definitely, um, definitely, which helps me to relax, helps me to think about something different in a different way. And, um, I hope that, uh, again, I could bring some, some sort of music to my kids as well.

Speaker:And they're also feeling, feeling the same way. Excited.

Speaker:De dare ask, what's your favorite piece of music that you like to play most often?

Speaker:Speaker 2: I do prefer to play my music, let's say, put this way.

Speaker:Okay. And one of the,

Speaker:Speaker 2: uh, uh, one of the, um. Uh, song, so to say can, uh, kind of, which rings with this, uh, with this thought is, uh, a song of Frank Sinatra My Way.

Speaker:And this is very much, uh, aligned again with, uh, with certain decisions in life. Yeah, I do prefer to do it my way and, uh, uh. However, again, uh, we are all staying on the shoulders of giants and uh, I recently heard how musical Bach was played in a jazz mode, and uh, that's really is fascinating.

Speaker:You're just adding syn corpus to bark and it sounds like jazz. Incredible.

Speaker:So I really appreciate that. Thank you for sharing again. And um, I also love live music. I'm not musical, but I love music and I go to a lot of live music events. I'm just gonna drop it in conversation that I happen to go to see Oasis at Wembley.

Speaker:Now some people would say that's not music. For my generation, I was 20 years old listening to that for the first time. There is a collective effervescence in an, in a stadium or an arena where people are singing the words. You will know what I mean. And humming along to a tune is the same principle, isn't it?

Speaker:But music really, really touches me as well. So, I really appreciate that. And finally, what's your number one golden rule in life and business art?

Speaker:Speaker 2: Yeah, stay, uh, integrate obviously, and that's, um, was uh, was actually part of the name choice and integrity is in fact doing something correct when nobody looks around on you, so to say.

Speaker:That's, uh, I would say one of the golden rules I definitely appreciate and, uh, in business and in my private life.

Speaker:I appreciate that. Thank you. Well, I think it's fair to say we've had a really enlightening insight into your world, Arten. I mean, you've taken us through. The background of s integrity your mathematical modeling background and how that intersects with medicine and really the brilliance with which you're leading an organization differently to most others.

Speaker:So I can only thank you for coming here today and sharing that story because I think many of our listeners will learn from that, but also I hope it resonates with many, many people. As I say, I'd encourage you to continue doing what you're doing 'cause it's clearly reaping dividends. And if any of our listeners and our audience would like to make contact with you, what's the best way to connect with you?

Speaker:Speaker 2: First of all, I'm open for a connection over LinkedIn or our website. Uh, that's probably the kind of the classical paths. But I'm continuously visiting different conferences like DIA scope or similar, and I'm. I'm I, I, I, I think, and I believe that it's actually, there are many multiple opportunities to join and to see more about seg our team.

Speaker:Uh, and again, shake hands and, uh, exchange ideas. And we're always welcoming various, uh. Experts from, uh, outside to do some co presentations or join sessions. Co-present also in the conferences. I also do research uh, in different topics actually, which are relevant for RBM and quality by design.

Speaker:If somebody has an ideas drop me a line in the LinkedIn and again, we're happy to discuss that.

Speaker:Okay. Thank you so much. And the website address, just for our audience as well, is it integrity.com? Yes. Lovely. Once again, sincere thanks for joining us on Pharma Prescribed Today. It's been an absolute delight to welcome you Autumn, and I look forward to continuing the conversation at a later date.

Speaker:Thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker:Speaker 2: Thank you, Adam, for your kind words and in fact wonderful session together. Thanks a lot.