Duncan Kemp — Redundancy, Reinvention & 20 Years of Clinical Software

Adam Walker:I am Adam Walker, a biometrics consultant, and this is the Pharma Prescribed Podcast where leaders, innovators, and hidden voices in healthcare open up, no sound bites, no spin, just raw insight, one prescription at a time. In an industry driven by data protocols and pressure, we rarely pause to ask the human questions.

Adam Walker:What drives us, what breaks us, and what truths live behind the titles we wear?

Adam Walker:Duncan Kemp is the founder of Software Solutions, a software consultancy firm with a mission to empower life science businesses with innovative and reliable solutions that drive efficiency, enhanced productivity, and foster growth.

Adam Walker:With over 20 years leading the development of software for the life science industry, Duncan has translated customer requirements to technical concepts with clarity. So incredible ideas are converted into tangible business assets.

Adam Walker:His journey began in 1998 during university, while working at a small startup developing site automation software for phase one trials.

Adam Walker:Over a period of two decades, Duncan navigated several company acquisitions, which resulted in leading multiple teams of software engineers across continents. In January 24.

Adam Walker:All that changed when Duncan was restructured out of its role and decided to make the daunting leap into setting up his own business.

Adam Walker:In March 25, Duncan and I met at the Association of Clinical Data Management Event in the beautiful city Prague. We struck up a friendship and have kept in contact ever since.

Adam Walker:Duncan, what a delight to see you today. Welcome to Pharma Prescribed

Duncan Kemp:Adam. Thank you. It\'s been great to be here. What a journey.

Duncan Kemp:You just picked up on some of those strange occurrences that happened and I particularly like the way we stayed in touch since that A CDM last year.

Adam Walker:Likewise.

Adam Walker:For those of our listeners who are not familiar with you, who are you and what do you do?

Duncan Kemp:Who am I? Okay. I\'m Duncan.

Duncan Kemp:I am a life sciences leader. I\'ve worked in the software industry for such a long time. I\'ve seen us go from handheld devices for data collection at bedsides. Particularly , for phase one clinics right up to adapting web based software so that it can be used, , to collect data immediately with real time feedback and response.

Duncan Kemp:And then I\'ve managed teams across the globe, , having to adapt to video conferences and motivating teams to be able to keep working when time zone challenges are there. And even just, helping people to see that there is light at the end of a tunnel when you are working towards a very difficult project,

Adam Walker:you are at a very sweet spot around technology, life, science, and innovation by the sounds of it.

Adam Walker:And I would imagine over the last 20 years you\'ve seen some incredible changes. We can talk about the more recent changes, but I would love historically to put that into some context because. Things have changed a lot, haven\'t they?

Duncan Kemp:Definitely. I was working part-time during uni and we were using Scion handheld devices with smart cards.

Duncan Kemp:And some of that technology continues, but that developed into mobile devices, into tablets. , But when you have to convert to be able to use software on a computer. There are challenges to be made. There\'s user interfaces to figure out there\'s conversations to have with customers to figure out how you go from a handheld device into something that is touchscreen or that is web-based and needing to respond to, user input.

Duncan Kemp:So yeah, absolutely. Innovation has been such a fundamental part of my career. And solving problems, not just technical problems, but user-based problems that help the end user use software better.

Adam Walker:Was that always something that was in you with regards to being a problem solver, looking for solutions and coming up with them proactively?

Duncan Kemp:Looking back at the age of 1920, no, I had no idea what I wanted to do but I\'ve always been somebody who\'s proactively wanted to get stuff done. Such a huge amount of drive and energy that my family would call me, like a rabbit, somebody who just never stopped running around from one task to the next.

Duncan Kemp:I was always motivated to help others and to solve problems in the process.

Adam Walker:It\'s a wonderful skill that you have and it\'s also presumably very helpful in life as well. There must be plenty of occasions when you need to call upon some of those skills around every other aspect of your life.

Adam Walker:And I know that you have a very busy family life.

Adam Walker:If I can bring that into the conversation as well.

Duncan Kemp:You certainly can. So I have four children and we started young. We\'ve got teenagers, we\'ve got adults in the house. We\'ve got a lot of busy activities. So it\'s not just taking people to clubs and so on, but it\'s the helping out with the homework.

Duncan Kemp:It\'s managing to handle budgets with the older ones. And yeah, just being able to be available for conversations as and when so yes it\'s a busy house.

Adam Walker:It certainly must be, and it certainly sounds like it would be. What is the age range you have from your eldest to youngest?

Duncan Kemp:Eldest. 20 and then we have 18 and 14 and 12.

Adam Walker:That is a fairly broad age range, so when you left university, did you always want to go into the area of software technology? Was it something that came to you later? How did you stumble into that?

Duncan Kemp:So it was weird \'cause I did a marketing degree which isn\'t a natural route into software development.

Duncan Kemp:so my father he owned a company and he said why don\'t you come and work for me a after many attempts to try and get onto graduate schemes. I went and joined him and we tested, we deployed. We trained, we, delivered this product to the market. And we\'re able to make it a success.

Duncan Kemp:Unfortunately acquisitions had to take place and so you have to adapt to the changes. But such a great experience along the way.

Adam Walker:That\'s wonderful.

Adam Walker:So I gather then that your father must have been fairly instrumental, not just in your learning, but also in the. Growth and mentorship that he provided you during those early years?

Duncan Kemp:Yeah, absolutely. So we would travel together, we would solve problems together. He was such a vital part and still is a vital part of my development. So yeah, absolutely. I love the thought of having a mentors. And not just family members, business colleagues people who are leading you into work and take the time to, to be able to help guide you in correcting things.

Duncan Kemp:I remember some amazing conversations with mentors who would help me. Correct things like presentations making sure that I don\'t repeat myself making sure that I\'m clear. Even just in the written word as well, how to reply to a customer, both in person and in the written word.

Adam Walker:Yeah, there\'s, there are some very important skills that I think we learn along the way.

Adam Walker:Presumably having that guidance from your father into early entrepreneurship set you on a particular trajectory. Is that fair?

Duncan Kemp:That\'s fair to say.

Duncan Kemp:I resisted setting up my own company. I resisted doing anything entrepreneurial for a very long time because I was having such a great time.

Duncan Kemp:I was enjoying the development of software. But when the opportunity came up. The restructuring opportunity, I was forced to make a decision about what I wanted to do next. And so the, chance came to set up my own company and it was a fantastic opportunity and I haven\'t looked

Adam Walker:back.

Adam Walker:So that came about as a result of a restructure.

Adam Walker:Redundancy can hit people hard, can\'t it? I\'ve had two experiences myself, and I think it was something that we spoke about when we met in Prague. It was something that connected us, our mutual experiences around challenge and the Phoenix from the flame moment.

Adam Walker:Can you talk through that a little bit more?

Duncan Kemp:Yeah. It, it starts off as a fairly raw emotion. And you go through a cycle of why me, what happened, what did I do? But, through thinking that through evaluating my values, that was a very key step that I took at the beginning of last year.

Duncan Kemp:I prioritized what was important to me and then I remembered that I wanted to set up something on my own and I sought guidance from people. I reached out to friends, to past acquaintances and was able to establish some sort of. New network in a new way of doing things and realized that there were people who were for me and championing me to make that change.

Duncan Kemp:It does take a bit of a, an adjustment to how you do things but yeah definitely very thankful for that opportunity to change.

Adam Walker:It\'s something that I think many friends and colleagues of ours will not understand until they\'re pushed into that situation. And like your experience, it can be quite crushing on a personal and a professional level to think that you\'re not wanted anymore as much as when you then dust yourself up and pick yourself off the ground, you do realize that.

Adam Walker:Opportunities are what you make of them, aren\'t they?

Duncan Kemp:Yeah. Absolutely. And that was the chance that I had.

Duncan Kemp:I didn\'t wanna waste my time lounging around the house. So every day I decided to do something, I would sit at my desk, I would join webinars, I would I would reach out to people on LinkedIn.

Duncan Kemp:I, I probably. Annoyed some people with my presence, random photos or comments or whatever. But do you know what? Setting myself up with a schedule and tasks that I would complete throughout throughout the week meant that I was busy and that did help me to stay focused on the task at hand and prioritize how I wanted to get to the next step.

Adam Walker:So what did you learn about yourself during that period? Because. Most people struggle without structure, and most people are not naturally organizers of their own time when they have an open amount of time. The hardest thing when you are between roles, as I often say, is actually knowing when the next one is coming.

Adam Walker:We just don\'t know, do we? So we\'ve gotta be proactive. We\'ve gotta stay mentally astute and alert. We\'ve gotta do the right things that we know are gonna serve us. Sleep well, eat well. Exercise, all those sorts of things. What did you learn during that period of time?

Duncan Kemp:Two big things stand out. One of them was the.

Duncan Kemp:Video calls are not all that bad. The direct video is fine, but when you can see yourself on the screen, that is always distracting. But what I did also in conjunction with that is I put myself out there. I I tried new things and with that increased my confidence and not just in my own ability to do something.

Duncan Kemp:I\'ve always been fairly confident. That I can do the task set at hand, but confident that other people want to hear what I\'ve got to say. And I think that is the bit that suddenly catapulted me into this ability to set up the business and to define the juxtaposition between the customer and the business and fill that gap so that you can start to bring clarity to chaos.

Adam Walker:Thank you for sharing that.

Adam Walker:I really do appreciate you clarifying that bit with regards to technology. This Zoom teams call it what you like, but recording capabilities is an amazingly powerful tool that I think most people have become pretty good at over the last four or five years since the pandemic, because we had to before then, I recall.

Adam Walker:Feeling very uncomfortable. Also being on a video thinking, this is quite intrusive. Why would people wanna see your, I don\'t know, your spare room, your office, whatever it was then to the point where we are now, where actually it just becomes second nature, doesn\'t it? And I think if you can do this connecting face-to-face.

Adam Walker:In the virtual sense, you can pretty much do your job anywhere in the world. And I know you cover various continents. How do you find that works for you? Do you need to physically travel so much?

Duncan Kemp:No, not so much now. There was a period in my career where I was traveling, many times a month.

Duncan Kemp:And that got very busy. But with the change of working where we do rely on video calls, I can do everything pretty much from one location. I live on the south coast in England and. I could be anywhere. Adapting to time zone changes is not a problem. Calculating the time zone difference can sometimes be an issue, especially during daylight savings.

Duncan Kemp:But yeah, no it\'s been fairly straightforward.

Adam Walker:So the kind of work that you do with Ware Solutions, what is that? What does that look like? What does a normal project start like, and does it follow a straight line?

Duncan Kemp:Not a straight line as such. My specialty is are product management.

Duncan Kemp:So within the software engineering side of things but also customer success. So on the other side, we have software that\'s available but both represent the middle part of hearing something and interpreting it to others. And that\'s the bit that I feel that there\'s a big space for there\'s a gap where people need the interpretation of what they\'re saying that makes sense into the company.

Duncan Kemp:So it\'s taking something from outside and making sure that it\'s clear for the inside. I do that through, diagrams, process flow but also the written word. And bullet points are my friend taking a block of text and then being able to convert it into something that\'s meaningful. We do start to use AI to do some of that, but there\'s nothing better for learning than processing some information yourself.

Duncan Kemp:So AI is brilliant at summarizing some information but if you really want to understand the topic, you will have to do some reading to get to the bottom of what it is. That\'s certainly what I found anyway.

Adam Walker:Presumably, your background in marketing comes in very handy in deciphering the quality from the quantity and the demeaning from the noise.

Duncan Kemp:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you recognize techniques that are there. A friend of mine shared a recording. It was like this, it was like an interview style recording of a company that we\'re talking about his company. And it was a marketing approach. Was all AI generated.

Duncan Kemp:You spot what they\'re trying to do. It\'s a fantastic approach to selling. But you do spot the sort of call to action. You spot the products that they\'re trying to sell. And you spot the massaging of someone\'s ego to be quite blunt. Yeah. But yeah that, is interesting being able to decipher what somebody is saying.

Adam Walker:So I\'m curious how you got into. Clinical trials you mentioned about working in early phase. That\'s somewhere that I\'ve also done a lot of work over the last few years. How did you get into that in the first place? What was the opening the door moment?

Duncan Kemp:Part of it was my father who owned the company and that was providing a system that was doing bedside data collection in a phase one clinic, but with time-driven events, time-driven procedures.

Duncan Kemp:So it wasn\'t just entering data. At the bedside at any time. It was protocol driven time. And as working in a phase one clinic, things are really important to get at the right time. The pre dose procedures may be a little bit more flexible, but as soon as that dose is in the body and post dose procedures are taking place, you wanna make sure that the time between them and the time between subjects is maintained.

Duncan Kemp:So that you\'ve got good equivalents of evaluating the data that comes out at the end. Protocol time. It\'s not just collection time, it\'s actually what\'s driving the, system. So that piece of software, there was not many competitors on the market. Most of the competitors.

Duncan Kemp:Were home bred systems that companies, large CROs, large farmers, were creating themselves that needing to have a commercial system that would do a lot of that work for them. Because software development is not cheap. You\'re having to constantly evolve and invest in those systems to keep them up to date.

Duncan Kemp:Not only was it time driven, but it was also device driven. So we talk about eSource, we talk about data coming from a device into a system, EDC or bedside data collection as we called it. And that\'s just one aspect of eSource. You\'ve got lab results, you\'ve got a human entering it real time.

Duncan Kemp:And you\'ve got multiple ways of getting the data into the system. And so we had the challenges of technology, of hardware, legacy systems like electrocardiograms that had a. Telecoms port and you had to get that connected to a computer that\'s only got a USB. So some of those hardware challenges were fun to solve as well.

Adam Walker:I appreciate you sharing that. As you were describing that, I was taken back to the early two thousands and my first experience of early phase as well. I think we had all the same challenges. We must have been doing the same things concurrently because. It just was such a difficult time I\'m not a technologist, or at least I didn\'t think I was.

Adam Walker:What I\'ve learned over the last 20 odd years and more is that adaptability. You figure things out on the fly, don\'t you? Things don\'t come with a rule book. They certainly very rarely come with an instruction manual. How to connect historic to future. Thankfully, there are some wonderful technologies around there now, but I think the real value in experience and wisdom is having seen how it\'s done from, like you said, early electronic data capture, EDC tools from paper, from eSource to where we are today, which is a completely different world of integrated data software.

Adam Walker:It\'s still not perfect by any stretch, but it\'s a lot more integrated than it ever was.

Duncan Kemp:Yep.

Adam Walker:I\'m just wondering what you are seeing now in the market, some of the amazing tools that are out there. Is there anything that really. Fuels your fire right now.

Duncan Kemp:I still got a great passion for eSource. Early phase systems I think are starting to morph into the more traditional EDC and companies are wanting to span phases, not just have one system for one phase and a different system for another phase.

Duncan Kemp:And people are exploring how to integrate new technology faster. So how do we adopt systems that seem a little bit scary or a little bit worrying? How do we include those in our portfolio of products that we\'re using? And I think time has helped with that. Subscription model has helped.

Duncan Kemp:People are more comfortable with setting up cloud-based systems that help them do their work. So we\'re definitely seeing an improvement there. I think the challenge will be integrating useful AI tools into a company\'s portfolio because you\'ve got different types of models. It\'s the variability of a generative system that we\'ve gotta be careful of because it can create hallucinations, it can create results.

Duncan Kemp:That can potentially be shared outside of your ecosystem. So a couple of compliance related concerns that are still on my radar, but I think companies are certainly learning to adapt faster. That\'s definitely what I\'m seeing.

Adam Walker:We talked about it when we were face-to-face in Prague. I know, yeah.

Adam Walker:About the human in the loop and at a number of conferences I\'ve been to in the last year. Where there\'s been regulators, there\'s been conversation around audit trails, visibility, what we\'re now calling ai, generative AI and agentic ai.

Adam Walker:None of those things I think are problematic, but what the regulators reinforced time and time again, certainly when I was in the room, were making sure that. As we would always do, you know what you\'re planning to do is what you\'re doing. You\'re documenting all of those steps and irrespective of what we call these things today versus what we called them 20 years ago, there is a clear structure and a delineation and an understanding within those instruction manuals within the guidelines that aligns to the data that\'s being collected perhaps in real time.

Adam Walker:But certainly at a later point may well be analyzed With that in mind. I\'d just love you to share your thoughts around that particular point.

Duncan Kemp:The ability to store the information is expanding. I think what we can do with compliance concerns is maybe attack.

Duncan Kemp:The effort so for example, if you get a new system and you need to test it, rather than spending lots of man hours on trying to write the test script, you can use generative AI in that instance to help speed up the process of creating steps. And then you refer to human in the loop so you can have humans testing the software manually.

Duncan Kemp:Based on the tests that the computers put together. So I see that as a good way of. Complying with the regulations because you can verify that the test script is right before you run it and matches your expectations. But the risk is quite low because you\'ve got that human in the loop element.

Duncan Kemp:If you get into testing automatically on that test script. You\'ve got not necessarily the same verification that it was right to begin with. So putting in those sort of checks and balances is really important with those systems. Not sure if that answers your question, but those are sorts of my thoughts around validation specifically.

Adam Walker:Yeah, I think that\'s really helpful. It\'s really relevant to something that I\'m doing for a particular client at the moment and it. Comes back to that point around the hallucinations, isn\'t it? Yeah. It\'s making sure that at every decision point, nevermind in writing scripts, and we\'re going into the detail here, in writing those scripts, the user requirements, that there is a human involved there as much as then when it\'s being tested that there\'s also a further human interventional review at that particular point.

Adam Walker:So I think it\'s very helpful. Thank you.

Adam Walker:With regards to, your experiences of being. An entrepreneur and going out and finding work. How do you do that? Because it\'s something that I\'m challenged with and as I\'ve mentioned, I always feel like I\'m between work. When you\'re not working, you\'re between projects a bit like an actor.

Adam Walker:Yeah. How do you go out, how do you find, how do you find the work? How do you tell people you\'re offering this service?

Duncan Kemp:So amazingly I\'ve got some long-term customers that are keeping me in business and keeping me very busy. So haven\'t had to experience it too often. I like the idea of picking up a long term contract at the moment to get me started.

Duncan Kemp:Going forward, who knows what could happen. Taking on somebody else would be an amazing achievement for 2026 because I\'d love to train up younger people to learn how to be curious, how to ask questions to move forward. So yeah I haven\'t had to do it too often, but when I have had to do it, I\'ve reached out to people that I know and asked for conversations like this, but where you discuss where the market\'s going, what the industry\'s doing and you look for opportunities that might come out of the conversation.

Duncan Kemp:Job boards and things are really cluttered, so going down that route is very hard. So that\'s been my tactic to date. It\'s worked out fairly well. Not sure what\'s gonna happen next because with long-term projects you don\'t have to work on promoting yourself as much. So that is a bit of a challenge.

Duncan Kemp:But being on LinkedIn every now and again helps.

Adam Walker:LinkedIn is definitely a very worthwhile tool and I think putting yourself out there on webinars and presenting is also very helpful. As much as I think when, we\'ve spoken sometimes it\'s just doing the uncomfortable things, isn\'t it? Sometimes it\'s posting a little bit more about yourself, maybe sharing some thought leadership ideas, a white paper, those types of things.

Adam Walker:Anything that really brings you to the attention of this relatively small industry in which we work, where people seem to know one another. You must find it as much as I do. You\'re stumbling across the same people in different organizations, in different guise, and maybe they look slightly different or a little bit older or whatever.

Adam Walker:But the reality is that there are a lot of regular familiar faces that come up time and time again. I also do value the opportunity to meet with those people face to face. Yes. In conference settings, because that\'s really where you get some quality interactions, isn\'t it?

Duncan Kemp:It really is.

Duncan Kemp:And that\'s what I\'m doing on Monday. I\'m gonna be going to a day conference symposium to make sure that I stay connected with people. Don\'t know who I\'m gonna see. There was a couple of people that I recognize, but actually just being somewhere like that and being confident to have those conversations is part of the selling process.

Duncan Kemp:It\'s invisible, but it\'s really important.

Adam Walker:Do you know what I have found that? There is a payment that pays back over the long term. Yeah, I think it\'s the visibility of posting that you are at these particular events as much as you just never know when those. Offline conversations are gonna happen around a coffee bar, a water cooler, a buffet station, whatever that might be.

Adam Walker:Those lovely tall places where we all stand and we try and juggle some sandwiches, try not to spit them all over one another while we\'re telling people what we are doing. Those are my favorites. Those

Duncan Kemp:are the best. Yeah.

Adam Walker:You\'ve you shared quite a lot of. Your background, how you got into this industry and what about the future?

Adam Walker:What about the future for Ware solutions? You mentioned also that you\'d be keen to bring in people into your organization. As you were saying that, I was thinking there\'s a couple of, guys in my. Team of mentees that I think would love to get to know you. So that might be a conversation for another day.

Adam Walker:Yes. But what do you see the future of Ware solutions over the next couple of years with respect to technology, how that might enhance your work, and potentially how that might, save some air miles.

Duncan Kemp:I\'m all the time documenting what I\'m doing \'cause I don\'t know what growth there will be going forward.

Duncan Kemp:I think that\'s a good rule of thumb in your life, in business, is to write down the things that are important and part of the reason for doing that is succession planning. I\'m a little bit young to be thinking like that, but I\'m still thinking there\'s always a possibility that you cannot be in a place at the same time as when you\'re needed.

Duncan Kemp:So having somebody else to do some of the things that I do, not just admin, \'cause I think that\'s a little bit boring for people, but also being given a little bit of trust to go and do some of the same things. Starting to ask questions to uncover people\'s challenges. And I think that is a real skill.

Duncan Kemp:I think younger people are taught how to ask questions but maybe less. In the sort of social skills of doing something in real life. This is a bit of a generalization but what I want to do is to help the next generation, so some of those things that over the next couple of years, I really want to go into local colleges and help young people to be confident in going out into the workplace, whether that\'s entrepreneurship or whether that\'s just working for a big company but finding out what their.

Duncan Kemp:Really keen to learn or what their values are, what their drive is. So that\'s one thing I\'d like to do. And then as far as the business and expansion I\'ve still got a soft spot for software. So staying within the software realm is really important to me. Using tools to improve efficiencies and to reduce waste is the other area.

Duncan Kemp:So again, it\'s really unusual to not be creating a product and not be necessarily selling a common service. But I think understanding software, having developed it and then being able to translate it to other people will help companies who just rely on software so much.

Adam Walker:I appreciate you sharing that.

Adam Walker:Thank you.

Adam Walker:I wouldn\'t be doing my job as interviewee if I didn\'t pick up on the reducing waste point. What do you mean by reducing waste? When you\'re talking around software solutions? Because I immediately was thinking around energy savings, but I\'m wondering what you are, what you\'re meaning by reducing waste.

Duncan Kemp:Okay. An example would be somebody who is copying and pasting something from a document into a form on a webpage. It\'s not just that you have to do it line by line or that you are I don\'t know, formatting it as you go. There are other ways to improve collection of information or entering of information.

Duncan Kemp:Another example would be. Last year, a random project that I got involved in was selling architect software. It was a bit of a deviation from my core skills. But it was something that a friend introduced me to and I tried it. And what I did is I manually went to a bunch of websites to get their contact details.

Duncan Kemp:And it took me a very long time. And after that as AI became much more useful, I was able to then say now get me the contact details. And within seconds I had all the web addresses, phone numbers, contact details of the sites around me. So thinking outside of the box a little bit and looking to improve processes to reduce waste.

Duncan Kemp:That\'s what I mean.

Adam Walker:Okay, that makes sense. And thank you for elaborating that does. Connect the gaps in my understanding around that. That\'s very helpful. Thank you Duncan.

Adam Walker:At this point in the conversation, I like to go onto a quick fire round and I wonder what is the one piece of advice Duncan, you would give to your younger self?

Duncan Kemp:Be confident in your abilities and what other people think about you. Definitely. To do that,

Adam Walker:what are the top three qualities you value most when building a team?

Duncan Kemp:Determination, curiosity, and integrity. So for integrity, it\'s really just being honest and being consistent with principles.

Duncan Kemp:Always doing the right thing. For determination that\'s being brave and strong in the face of adversity and committing to persevere through those challenges. Not just work challenges, but also, I know that this is really close to your heart. It\'s mental health challenges as well. That\'s really important.

Duncan Kemp:And not just from an employee perspective, but from an employer perspective to help others to, face those challenges. Then with curiosity I just love understanding people\'s perspectives and not just asking questions to be difficult, but actually to open up the conversation and to help people solve their problems.

Adam Walker:I love that. Thank you for that. And your favorite thing outside of work, Duncan? I\'m

Duncan Kemp:a very practical person, so I like to build stuff out of the wood, but it has to solve, it has to have a purpose.

Adam Walker:That\'s perfect. And finally, what is your number one golden rule in life and in business?

Duncan Kemp:I totally agree.

Duncan Kemp:With Lee fell from Caritas bioscience when she said that looking out for others, thinking of other people putting yourself in their shoes, thinking about how they would feel and then applying that to yourself really helps when you\'re dealing with other people.

Adam Walker:I love the quote that you brought in from Lee.

Adam Walker:She\'s great. And actually I think the two of you would get on incredibly well.

Duncan Kemp:Awesome.

Adam Walker:You are very similar and I\'m glad you\'ve linked back to that earlier podcast. So for our listeners Lee El was someone that I interviewed a little while ago and she\'s available on all, podcasting channels on pharma prescribe.

Adam Walker:We\'ve touched on so many different things today, Duncan. This has been incredibly instructive to just understand the person behind software solutions. The reality of being an entrepreneur, driving through determination, through coming out the other side of redundancy and really just defining your own truth in.

Adam Walker:Every aspect of your life, from being a parent of four kids, which I have to mention again, because I think that\'s remarkable by the way, all the way through to standing on your own two feet and turning up at those conferences on your own. I know what that feels like. That\'s tough. That\'s difficult.

Adam Walker:It\'s not easy is it? It\'s just your name over the door. So I really do credit you with an awful lot of strength and conviction around that. And this has just been a very. Interesting and insightful conversation amongst hopefully two friends. So yeah, thank you for coming on, pharma prescribed today, Duncan, it\'s been a pleasure and a delight to welcome you and I look forward to continuing the conversation at another point.

Duncan Kemp:Thank you so much, Adam. It\'s been a fantastic conversation. Always interesting to talk to you. Thank you.