Steve Sanghera — Inventus Group: From Telecom to MedTech Innovation

Adam Walker:I am Adam Walker, a biometrics consultant, and this is the Pharma Prescribed podcast where leaders, innovators, and hidden voices in healthcare open up, no sound bites, no spin, just raw insight, one prescription at a time in an industry different by data protocols and press. We rarely pause to ask the human questions.

Adam Walker:What drives us, what breaks us, and what truths live behind the titles we wear? Steve Sanghera is the CEO of Inventus, a UK based innovator redefining how clinical trials are powered through secure provisioned mobile devices. With a background steeped in digital transformation, Steve leads Inventus in delivering smartphones and tablets.

Adam Walker:Purpose built for life sciences. Under his leadership, Inventus has partnered with Global Tech leaders to simplify the complexities of device provisioning, making clinical research more agile, secure and scalable. Steve, welcome to Pharma Prescribed. How are you?

Steve Sanghera:I\'m very well, Adam. It\'s a pleasure, uh, to be invited

Adam Walker:to your podcast.

Steve Sanghera:Well,

Adam Walker:For our audience, I guess my first question really is, is what brings you here today?

Steve Sanghera:Yeah. Yeah, my back, my background, if anyone checks me out on LinkedIn, it\'s quite varied. But my, the main part of my background is mobile telecommunications and finance. And about five years ago, I decided that I wanted to continue my entrepreneurial journey.

Steve Sanghera:I. Approached one of my mentors and a, a previous boss of mine and said, would you like to come on board and let\'s do something together? And we formed Inventus.

Steve Sanghera:Around that time lockdown happened, I think everybody can remember lockdown. Lockdown for me was very exciting. I was very fortunate to be engrossed in building a business.

Steve Sanghera:And as we were trying to figure out what this business was going to be, I. What we did know was we wanted to take our technology and move it into other industries. Primarily the first approach was the financial industry. And we started to work with a big asset finance, uh, business. And then all of a sudden, through our network, as people knew that Jim and I had started a new business, we just got this request for a huge.

Steve Sanghera:Quantity of mobile devices out the blue. My background was sourcing devices and so that kind of challenge wasn\'t too difficult for us. So we went, yep, we can tender for that. And so we did and we actually thought we won it, to be honest. We were told we\'d won it. And then right at the last minute, Motorola, the big beast, they are pictures.

Steve Sanghera:Quite deflating. But I turned around to Jim and said, Jim. Who wants this amount of devices unless you\'re a mobile carrier or a retailer. Um, so we started to ask a load of questions behind it, and we started to understand the challenges that clinical trials was finding in sourcing consistent, reliable consumer devices.

Steve Sanghera:Three weeks later or a month later, we get a phone call from. The organization saying motor have let them down and this was consistent and can you do it for us? So we did. And that was for a COVID trial. And our journey began from then really, it really did. And it opened our eyes up to everything that we learned the previous 20 years was transferable in some way, shape or form, to applying that to better technology solutions for clinical trials.

Adam Walker:That\'s an amazing, amazing story and an amazing opportunity that you grabbed by the sounds of it, with two hands and Yeah, absolutely. As we all know, COVID was the great disruptor. It created opportunities and it created great challenges for many people in society. And I myself was working in clinical research and pivoted into COVID trials as well, so I know exactly what that felt like as.

Adam Walker:Yeah, as a disruptor to the industry.

Adam Walker:So how did that then play out? You had to then suddenly find all sorts of enormous amounts of devices and provision them. So we did that,

Steve Sanghera:um, very quickly. Uh, we had no time to think we successfully delivered onto that. And then we approached that organization and said, why are you doing it this way?

Steve Sanghera:It does not make sense. Consumer devices, you\'ve got multiple SKUs around the world. Lifecycle of devices are 12 months. You can\'t find them. You\'re managing all these different SKUs. Why? Why has nobody ever built a patient device for a clinical trial and a site device for clinical trial? And they agreed and said, could you do it?

Steve Sanghera:And we went, yes. That\'s when the first Inventus devices were created and deployed into clinical trials in terms of our phase one. And then we started to ask more questions. I was like a shrink on a, and getting anybody in the industry who would listen just to tell me their problems. And as we found out more and more problems, we could find that.

Steve Sanghera:There were challenges way deeper than just the hardware. That was just the basic of it. And we set out on a journey to say, we can make a difference here, so let\'s go for it. And that had its challenges, but we\'re 5 years in half a million devices deployed. With a complete ecosystem of technology that\'s way beyond devices now.

Steve Sanghera:We are a true technology ecosystem dedicated to clinical trials, and I think that\'s the key. Inventus does not work in any other vertical market. It lives and breathes clinical trials. We have 3 things that we talk about every day. That\'s the patient, the site, and the sponsor. Without everybody else, we are just service providers because without the patients and without gaining empathy trust, we have no clinical trials.

Steve Sanghera:And we know that\'s the most challenging part of building a protocol design of a clinical trial without the amazing work of clinicians and the sites to manage them. We have no clinical trials, and again, the products, the technology that we are putting in the hands of these patients and sites. Are not fit for purpose.

Steve Sanghera:We are putting square pegs into rad holes because people don\'t understand there\'s a difference and there\'s, there\'s alter alternatives now, and we\'ve demonstrated and proven that. And then finally the sponsors because without their investment, we have nothing. So if you live and breathe those three principles, I think you\'re starting to align yourself with anybody that cares about the delivery of a clinical trial.

Steve Sanghera:And that\'s what matters. It\'s not about the clinical trial, it\'s about caring about the patient, making a difference to those that need it, saving lives, bettering lives, which is now why in our journey we\'re moving more to preventative care rather than. Just existing care because I think that\'s the future and we are very much trying to move down that route and I\'m sure we\'ll, we\'ll elaborate on that later.

Adam Walker:Thank you for sharing that, Steve. I think that\'s a really great insight to give our audience because. Where opportunities are created. And as someone coming into this industry from another area, you\'ve clearly committed to it. And I\'m delighted that you have, as someone working in this industry who\'s been challenged with many of the technical issues around building patient apps and patient recorded outcomes on such devices, we have always historically used very old tech, very old phones and.

Adam Walker:Bring your own device. Was only something that\'s been talked about fairly recently.

Adam Walker:I\'m just curious on that particular point, how that aligns with the devices that you are providing to clinical trials and to clinical sites. We

Steve Sanghera:welcome B-Y-O-D-I think bring your own devices using patient devices has a role to play, but it ain\'t the final solution.

Steve Sanghera:And over the last three years, we are seeing an increase in provisioning devices over B-Y-O-D-B-Y-O-D. When you really start digging under it, it\'s all about cost savings. It\'s all, it\'s about cost savings. What we\'ve done is we\'ve brought now provision devices at half the value, at the full value at half the cost.

Steve Sanghera:So when you\'re starting to deploy these high-end devices, we are bringing high-end technology value. And that\'s not just in the hardware, that\'s on total services. And the interesting thing is that when we start talking to potential new clients or our existing partners and stakeholders, stakeholders, that becomes the last thing we talk about.

Steve Sanghera:Because by the time we\'ve articulated the value add that we bring, whether it\'s the reasons of our devices and why they\'re purpose built, and the detail that we go into in terms of thinking about the patient and site, whether it\'s the global connectivity, whereby we are the only clinical data plan operator, let me explain what that is.

Steve Sanghera:We are a dedicated mobile network just for clinical trials. Forget about at t Vodafone, T-Mobile, all amazing organizations. We\'re an agnostic data platform that enables data connectivity in over 135 countries. That\'s carrier agnostic at value. Think about it. No sim cards. Yeah. Ease of access to configuration for the patient and the site.

Steve Sanghera:And you\'ve got the best opportunity to get the best connection because you\'re not stuck to one carrier. So we have 400, 450 carriers that we manage all on one sipl platform with a portal. And it\'s going into that level of detail and having the commitment to invest in that and believing in your convictions is what we did.

Steve Sanghera:It\'s proven, it\'s, we\'ve got one of the largest pharmaceutical sponsors that is now contracted to us for a long time doing all of this, and we\'ve changed their landscape when it comes to managing their clinical trials across all therapeutic areas. I think we managed in excess of 70 trials at the moment, the full protocol and design.

Adam Walker:That\'s a really key point that I think you\'ve made there, and this is why I\'m gathering that farmers are aligning with the service that you\'re providing. Because historically this has always been a very large bump to get over a hurdle to overcome, and as I say, having been at the sharp end of those development.

Adam Walker:Of tools and platforms around that. I haven\'t heard anyone offering agnostic solutions, agnostic of technology agnostic of phone providers. That\'s a key point as far as I can see, because that in itself means that you can use your devices in any setting, in any location. Under any circumstances is that correct?

Steve Sanghera:one product that\'s accessed globally. So it\'s one world, one device, which in itself is unique. And the whole tech stack, whether it\'s your MDM platform, your global connectivity. The technology, we put in the hands of the patient and the sites are purpose designed only for a clinical trial.

Steve Sanghera:That\'s the difference. These are services for this industry and this industry alone. Yeah. If in, if Inventus doesn\'t deliver for clinical trials, Inventus don\'t exist. You can\'t commit a business more to something than that. We wake up every day with that vision, that desire, that passion and it\'s working.

Steve Sanghera:And the client base that we\'ve got, which is growing, the amount of connectivity devices and the success of that is there to be seen. And people say what, what demonstrates more about your business and the success of your business? Words are cheap. Marketing\'s easy. Yeah.

Steve Sanghera:All of our clients and the majority of our key employees all come via referrals because soon as somebody gets under the bonnet of Inventus, Adam, and they really understand us, our ethos, our values, our commitment, they\'re like either say, can we join or.

Steve Sanghera:They\'ll ring up their mate in another CRO or another tech vendor and say, you might want to talk to these guys. Yeah. \'cause they\'re doing it differently. And that\'s how we, we\'ve only grown that way. We\'ve never marketed our business. People don\'t even know, people say Inventus is like, who are they? No one knows us.

Steve Sanghera:That\'s deliberate because to deliver the service excellence, you also have to manage your growth, Adam. So whether you believe you\'ve got a unique solution. If you just give it to everybody, well, your service excellence goes well without service excellence. We have nothing. Clinical trials relies on service excellence.

Steve Sanghera:There is no room for error. Not even 1% consumers, consumer manufacturers, they\'ll work to three to 5%. That\'s okay. Got a default to 3%, 5%. That\'s industry standard. No, no, no, no.

Adam Walker:We have not.

Adam Walker:We can\'t, you\'ve clearly understood the market in which you\'re now working, Steve, and I\'m curious to know how and what you\'ve identified alongside those things that you\'ve mentioned there that are different in healthcare versus technology provision more broadly.

Steve Sanghera:we are, we don\'t, we are a, we\'re a life sciences business, Adam. That\'s what we are. Yeah, we\'re a technology solutions provider for clinical trials. We live and breathe life sciences, so we have to know the lingo.

Steve Sanghera:We also have to, not just the lingo, we have to know how this industry thinks. It\'s highly regulated, highly regulated across the board, so compliance is key. So that\'s the first and foremost. It also doesn\'t like change. And it\'s because it doesn\'t like change. And the risk of change, which is stopping people to get the confidence to deploy better technologies.

Steve Sanghera:And that\'s the challenge that we hit head on. We eliminate all the risks for change. It takes us between nine and 12 months to onboard a new partner. And in those nine and 12 months, it\'s all about testing.

Adam Walker:Y you\'re absolutely right about risk and change. It is a very conservative industry, and I\'m sure you\'ve experienced that firsthand.

Adam Walker:We are, we are well versed in all the requirements around I-C-H-G-C-P 21 C, FFR Part 11, all things I\'m sure you\'re very familiar with. Now maybe you\'ve got on your your little I-C-G-C-P guideline on your, um. It is a very conservative industry and this comes up time and time again in many of the conversations I have with people.

Adam Walker:But I\'m very interested to, to understand your perspective on that. As someone coming into this industry, how have you found people engaging with you and welcoming you into that very closed small community of healthcare providers?

Steve Sanghera:So our biggest challenge. Is the first hurdle, somebody having the confidence, having the time and the commitment to want to listen to what we do.

Steve Sanghera:Soon as we get that opportunity and we have the right audience within the right partner. They really fully understand the value adds that we bring across the board of which money and value of money and cost savings is last. Uh, that\'s just the cherry on top. They listen

Steve Sanghera:and they sign, and that\'s just how it is. And the biggest challenge is finding.

Steve Sanghera:The right individuals within these big pharmaceutical companies, a CRO, a tech vendor or a sponsor, that really understands this problem because this problem is minor in the overall protocol design of a clinical trial.

Steve Sanghera:And the, the analogy that I use consistently for people to understand Inventus is all we do is provide rivets. Everybody else builds the planes, Adam. Yeah, but if you get the rivets wrong, what happens to the plane? And who actually thinks about the rivets on a plane? You think about the engine, you think about everything else.

Steve Sanghera:Landing gear, even the informa infotainment system that you sit on your lovely plane. Who thinks about the rivets? Well, we provide the rivets and that rivet protects \$1.6 billion because that\'s the total cost of a clinical trial today. And that\'s our responsibility, but we\'ve got to find the people that care about the rivets and once they care about the rivets and then the COO or the CFO gets introduced to the savings, operational savings, the value adds, it\'s becomes an easier conversation to be had.

Steve Sanghera:Then the challenge is confidence, and that\'s where we come in because our job only begins once we\'ve deployed. Manufacturers, once they\'re manufactured and given you the product, they run away. They move on to the next one. No, no. Our business is geared on providing services and consistency of service for the lifecycle of a clinical trial.

Steve Sanghera:For us at the moment, on average, that\'s just over four years. We\'ve got some clinical trials that are almost a decade now that our devices are deployed into, so we have a responsibility for that. That\'s the difference, Adam. It\'s a mentality difference. And, and that\'s why we are a life sciences business.

Steve Sanghera:We\'re not a tech company. We provide tech solutions, but we think and breathe like a life sciences company, a clinical trial provider does.

Adam Walker:It\'s a wonderful analogy that the one of the rivets, it really resonates really loudly for me because it\'s all about the detail, isn\'t it? It\'s about the minutia.

Adam Walker:It\'s about the small changes. The huge impact. As you say, the rivets are pivotal to a plane as much as the wheels and the, and the undercarriage. That must really resonate very loudly with, with not just pharma companies, but with patients. And you mentioned patient sites and sponsors being pivotal, uh, to everything that you do.

Adam Walker:What feedback are you receiving from patients who are using your devices? Okay, so. That\'s the challenge

Steve Sanghera:we have. So as an organization, we, we stick to real strict GDPR restrictions. And we don\'t, we don\'t step that mark. Okay. We\'re not an eco or provider. We have no need to know patient data even to site level.

Steve Sanghera:Um, so the feedback we get is very much through our partners. And it\'s, so Doris from Texas who\'s 85, is the one I use. And I want to meet her one day because. When we design a product, we design it with Doris in mind. And all the doris\'s out there are very grateful that they\'re using Inventus devices and what we know about because we design them knowing that our end users are not tech savvy.

Steve Sanghera:They\'re not like you and I. Yeah. Some of them aren\'t. They\'re gonna be, some of them are impaired in many, many different ways. So we have to design our products. To take that into consideration. So whilst we try to make \'em aesthetically pleasing and why wouldn\'t you? Yeah, we deliberately don\'t make \'em sexy \'cause they don\'t need to be.

Steve Sanghera:And the next phase of our products which will be launching next year very much goes into that even more as we learn more, uh, which we\'re really, really excited about. And the same applies to a site for me, it\'s the sites that get the brunt. You walk into a site, you\'ve probably got 55 different versions of a, of a device for 55 different clinical trials.

Steve Sanghera:And we wanna try and eliminate that.

Adam Walker:I find the biggest struggle these days in, in, in my brain, my own device by the way, is, uh, trying to get an appointment for my doctor\'s surgery next door. \'cause I\'ve gotta go through the NHS app and then I\'ve gotta go through a series of questions. Which are then triaged, just to be able to be told that I can\'t see someone for a week.

Adam Walker:And I\'m a young, relatively young person who\'s fairly tech savvy. I don\'t know how Doris is managing in the uk at the moment in Texas. With, with, exactly. Doris is, uh, cousin in the uk. It really is challenging, isn\'t it? Technology is advancing at such a pace.

Adam Walker:How do you give consideration to simplifying complexity in devices?

Steve Sanghera:User, user interface, uh, ease of access into the device. Language translation. We have 586 different languages on our devices. Yeah. That\'s four times more than most devices that are out there. We won a large trial last year.

Steve Sanghera:30,000 patients because of our languages and our devices, and our partner won that trial with that sponsor because of it. So it\'s little details are like that font size. There\'s, there\'s many things. And, and the new devices that we\'re bringing out even goes into that even more. As, as we advance our, our product roadmap as we move forward.

Steve Sanghera:And connectivity, ease of connecting your device through esim barcode scan, done no having to fiddle around with things into the settings and all that.

Adam Walker:As the leader of this organization, you must have some very smart people behind you. I\'m not suggesting you are not that person, but you\'ve gotta have some very.

Adam Walker:Clever technologists that are supporting your activities, where do they, where do, where are they located? How many of them are there? Because as you said, there\'s not an awful lot of information out there around Inventus. I gather you\'ve been in stealth mode for the last few years for a reason.

Steve Sanghera:We are the first to do what we do we wanted to ensure that we were focused on the job at hand. Rather than focusing on just trying to grow your business, because we have a reliability and a responsibility for those that gave trust in us many years ago, now is the time that we can start expanding a little bit more and as we move forward.

Steve Sanghera:So we started with a handful of people, the famous five we call them. And these were handpicked people that Jim and I had worked with before. They have the same passion, vision, trust, and loyalty. And then from then we\'ve grown on, so we\'ve got almost 70 employees. Um, we\'re based in, we\'ve got three offices in the uk hub in the uk, an EU hub with a 10,000 square foot facility.

Steve Sanghera:We\'ve got offices and facilities in China. Hong Kong, and we\'ve just expanded into the states as well. And in terms of what we\'ve done is the business started off with more telecommunication expertise. Now we have more life sciences. So to put some factual, uh, behind facts behind that, uh, we\'ve appointed a new COO from the industry.

Steve Sanghera:15 years, 20 years experience. Guy called Andrew Levers, who\'s now has opera. He runs all operations, but he\'s very much all about defense. So he\'s looking at auditing, legislative cover, and obviously all the operational backend stuff and doing an amazing job. Um, doing that, uh, we\'ve just appointed and he is just joined a Chief strategy officer from AstraZeneca.

Steve Sanghera:Um. And have a think about that. We get somebody from the largest company in the uk, not the largest sponsor, but the largest company in the UK has joined us and he is gonna head up the US for is a guy called David Loughborough. Probably the smartest kid in the, in the room. And he\'s very much all about our Inventus life of health and connected health journey.

Steve Sanghera:As we move forward, um, we\'ve got a new chief product officer. Come from 15 years within BT and ee that, that\'s come on board and a new chief commercial officer that\'s come from Macquarie Bank, an investment bank, and you can see that. And, and our new fd, who\'s our accountant from day one.

Steve Sanghera:Worked for the accountancy firm that we\'ve got a large accountancy firm and now\'s come on board so everyone now knows the numbers were real because our accountants come and join us, which is a running joke that tells you the trust that everyone has in Inventus and the belief, and it also gives some real factual evidence to we are real.

Steve Sanghera:It\'s real. It\'s what we do is what we do. 500,000 devices globally don\'t lie. No returns, minimal, don\'t lie. Consistent connectivity don\'t lie. That, and you can see now that this is no longer Jim and Steve\'s business. Yeah. And you know, I\'m a thinker. I\'m a strategist. I\'m energetic. I\'m passionate.

Steve Sanghera:I have self personal reasons why that is, but I need good people behind me to take what I\'ve got in my head and build the business to take us to the next phase.

Adam Walker:You hinted about your own personal drivers behind this. We all have reasons that bring us into this industry. I\'d love to hear more about that, the personal story behind what brings you here today, Steve.

Steve Sanghera:Five years ago, my perception of clinical trials was not great. Okay. Naive didn\'t really know too much about it. All you hear is the propaganda from the media about the rich getting richer, just providing Netflix coming out with all these crazy things. My sister was diagnosed with multiple cirrhosis when she was 19.

Steve Sanghera:She\'s 42 now. Um, and throughout that journey, um, we\'ve been offered the opportunity to join clinical trials for her through some of the, some of the leading consultants. And we declined everyone.

Steve Sanghera:I spoke to a very senior member within a sponsor over dinner, and we shared our own stories. He has a very similar story within his family, and he lives in a sponsor. He works in a sponsor at a senior level, and what that tells me is we have to make that patient experience better, but it goes beyond that.

Steve Sanghera:We have to promote the stigma, remove the stigma to clinical trials. People being inserted with crazy drugs and animal testing and all this crazy nonsense that\'s out there. What we\'ve gotta focus in on is the great work that clinicians, pharmaceutical scientists, biochemists, are doing every day, spending billions of dollars, losing billions of dollars as well, because it doesn\'t always work.

Steve Sanghera:So they should be rewarded. And if we can get that changed, then maybe 15 years ago we could have joined that clinical trial. And maybe the treatment that\'s available for multiple cirrhosis today could be better. Yeah, I\'ve just come back for my holiday with my sister. She\'s in a wheelchair. And that wasn\'t the reason I joined and built Inventus, by the way.

Steve Sanghera:I don\'t, I wanna make that clear. But as I\'ve learned more and I\'ve understood more about the negativity that\'s out there, that drives me personally to try and make a diff and patient recruitment is next on my list. Next on my list.

Adam Walker:I wanna just acknowledge what you\'ve talked about there, Steve. Your own personal experience clearly is important to you in the energy in which you.

Adam Walker:Answered my question. It was clear to me that there is something deeply personal about what you\'re doing. And it\'s always interesting, not just from a personal perspective, but also for our audience to hear what drives leaders in life sciences. And clearly you have your why. You have your why, it gets you outta bed every day.

Adam Walker:We all have our why. MS is something that\'s affected my family also quite significantly over the years, and it can be a very, very difficult. Transition from physical ability to physical disability and everything that comes thereafter. And I want to say that, I acknowledge that pain that you are experiencing in as much as I, I know what it\'s done to, you know, to one particular member of my family and others in our extended family and friends.

Adam Walker:So it\'s, it\'s a very difficult and very debilitating illness, and it has life changing circumstances. It\'s really helpful just to understand a little bit more about the person behind the organization as well to understand the drive and the determination behind which you are making key decisions. And we all hopefully have a small part to play in, in the bigger picture.

Adam Walker:So I wanted to acknowledge that. And thank you once again, Steve. Pleasure.

Adam Walker:As far as, as far as where you see the biggest challenges for the industry now, technology is advancing at. Rapid pace. What is your experience of that in the last year? 18 months? Don\'t get,

Steve Sanghera:don\'t get too carried away with what technology\'s out there, because the, particularly in this area that we\'re talking about, most of it is consumer orientated.

Steve Sanghera:Yeah. AI is a prime example of that. So today, I. You wanna turn me into Brad Pitt on a photo? You can do it. I\'m sure my wife would prefer that. So when you look at technology and you look at the advances of technology that\'s out there, the biggest risk you do is jump on it and think, or everything has to change and you\'ve gotta change everything you do.

Steve Sanghera:No, it doesn\'t. Okay. Whilst it\'s the biggest challenge, which is change management. It\'s also our biggest opportunity because what it does is it gives organizations like Inventus the Runway to be able to look at it, analyze it, assess it, test it, build it, then deploy it. Yeah. And that\'s how we work. So when it comes to stuff like AI, for instance, it\'s very much high on our agenda.

Steve Sanghera:We know, and we\'re starting to really understand the role that AI can play in the design protocol and outcomes of a clinical trial. But it\'s gotta be done in a controlled and controlled fashion and in a very tight testing environment. And that\'s where we\'re at today. So there\'s just one example in terms of what.

Steve Sanghera:The way we think when it comes to technology. There\'s some great technology out there for sure. But it\'s not all built for clinical trials. What we do is take it and then mold it for the benefit of a clinical trial, and that\'s what Inventus does. Nobody else does it.

Adam Walker:So if I can ask, how will that play out?

Adam Walker:Do you anticipate in the provisioning of devices, let\'s say in the next three to five years, can you see that far ahead? Is it gonna be the same sort of trajectory? Is that what you\'re intending for Inventus alongside building in some of these tools when they\'re proven and when they\'re more oven ready.

Steve Sanghera:So the oven\'s being built because you need the oven anyway, so all that\'s being done in the background. And making sure that it\'s capable for when it is ready. What we\'re doing now is trying to figure out how we\'re going to cook it. So when we look at this technology, it\'s all about, right.

Steve Sanghera:Okay. When we look at the design protocol of a clinical trial, we look at all the challenges and issues that we\'re seeing, whether it\'s in patient recruitment, whether it\'s in language translation, whether it\'s in lots of different areas that we consider. How do we then take. Technology, have it regulated to ensure that, one, it doesn\'t void a clinical trial.

Steve Sanghera:Two, we stay within our parameters of GDPR and then building the solution, then testing it and applying it. And we\'re in that phase at the moment. So we\'re, this time next year, I think you\'ll, you\'ll see Inventus 2.0. You know, 1.0 is here to stay. It\'s doing great guns. But we have a focus, a desire, and a commitment to keep improving.

Steve Sanghera:So that\'s what we\'ll do. So Inventus 2.0 will be just an extension of 1.0. It\'s not going to replace it. And that will have more of the technology that we that this people are talking about today but in a very controlled manner. And we\'ve got a real, we\'ve got a good spread of good people around us clients who are far smarter than we are, that are advising us and also guiding us as well.

Steve Sanghera:So this is now not just an inventor\'s journey. Our partners are now we\'re talking to their technical teams on a constant basis. You know, I had a. A, a one-to-one session with almost 30 individuals within a sponsor three weeks ago at senior level. Talking about our future technology. Put that into perspective.

Steve Sanghera:You\'ve got a small organization like Inventus, sat in a room with 20 odd people with another 10 people dialing in for two and a half hours. About our small little business in one of the largest sponsors in the world. Now you can\'t even get 30 people in these large sponsors in the room. Why? So we know we\'re trying to do the right things.

Steve Sanghera:We\'re being guided by the right people, which is also important. And I think it\'s important to note that any organization thinks that they\'ve got all the answers. Yeah, you\'re on your way down. Yeah, we reach out and we\'ve, we\'ve built the business on learning.

Adam Walker:It\'s clear that by surrounding yourself with some of those heavyweights of the industry, you\'re going to acquire a lot of knowledge very quickly about the market in which you are focusing your attention.

Adam Walker:And I think listening to you describe that no one is the. The complete package. Are they the, the key? The key is surrounding yourself with other very smart people who can compliment your skillset, but also bring to the table many different perspectives that you wouldn\'t otherwise have.

Adam Walker:I\'m assuming that leadership team that you are developing is that forum where those kind of discussions are happening.

Steve Sanghera:Absolutely. They should get me. Retired rather soon. Right. They should be able to run this business without me. And I don\'t think I, I\'ll say that openly probably because on a podcast, I think as a leader of a business chief, executive of business, how do you, as an individual, what\'s successful or success for me is building Inventus to a company that I no longer can run, and don\'t be ashamed of that because that means that I\'ve done my job.

Steve Sanghera:Jim\'s done his job. And in any organization, that\'s how the journey goes. And so I openly say to my team, yeah, let\'s build a business that I can\'t run anymore, because that means we\'re succeeding.

Adam Walker:The perfect analogy that you\'ve reminded me of is, is that of the New Zealand all black rugby team. And they talk about leaving the shirt in a better place.

Adam Walker:Do you know that one?

Steve Sanghera:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I might use that.

Adam Walker:It\'s true. There\'s a, there\'s a fantastic book by James Kerr called Legacy, which talks exactly about this and the pivoting from being the. Best team in the world to the most winningest team in the world. So they have the highest win rate percentage of any team in the world.

Adam Walker:I think that\'s still the case, but they pivoted from a position of being regular losers to then being back to back World Cup rugby winners. Just as an aside, I love rugby and the story of the All Blacks is just, with me forever, but that\'s exactly what you reminded me of when you were saying that.

Adam Walker:Sure. It\'s not about you, it\'s about . Leaving that shirt somewhere in a higher place. So fair play to you.

Adam Walker:You\'ve given us some amazing insights, Steve, not just into Inventus, but also your own backstory, your motivation, and at this point in the discussion, I always like to finish with a quick fire round.

Adam Walker:Okay. If I may, what is the one piece of advice you would give to your younger self?

Steve Sanghera:I would say. I should have gone into becoming an entrepreneur earlier. I probably was five years later than I should.

Adam Walker:What are the top three qualities you value most when building a team? Integrity, loyalty, hard work.

Adam Walker:None of which happen individually. They coalesce around that same energy, don\'t they? . And your favorite, your favorite thing outside of work. What is the thing that you enjoy doing most when you\'re not working and driving forward? Inventus,

Steve Sanghera:The first thing is spending time with my family because I travel a lot, right?

Steve Sanghera:I did eight to two flights last year. It\'s only 52 weeks in a year. So, spending time with my, with my family first and foremost, and then shopping bit of a shopper, Holly, as my family are as well from being, I know you, you wanted me to be true to myself. I\'m being true to myself. I do like to shop every now and again.

Adam Walker:What\'s a guilty pleasure around shopping? Is there something you collect more than anything? Clothes, shoes, trainers at the moment. Okay. And finally, what is your number one golden rule in life and in business, Steve? Um, be honest and transparent. Simple.

Adam Walker:I think you have been today and I think this.

Adam Walker:Will resonate with our audience. , Once again, I really appreciate you taking the time and being so transparent and honest with us today, Steve, and thank you for being on Pharma Prescribed. It\'s been an absolute delight to get to know you. It\'s been an absolute pleasure and,

Steve Sanghera:yeah, it\'s nice to know that you reached out and had an interest in, in little Inventus, so thank you.

Steve Sanghera:Thank you so much.